100th Podcast Special - Episode 100

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In this week's episode...

Jeffrey Smith recounts stories from his 25 years as a non-GMO activist, to Debra Poneman, in this inspiring, one-of-a-kind interview:

  • Why is Jeffrey such an optimist?
  • What's one thing everyone can do?
  • What are his favorite stories traveling and speaking around the world?
  • How'd he get started?

Jeffrey shares some stories you won't hear anywhere else.

The Institute for Responsible Technology is working to protect you & the World from GMOs (and while we’re at it, Roundup®...)  To find out exactly how we do this and to subscribe to our newsletter visit https://www.responsibletechnology.org/

Join us at Protect Nature Now to Safeguarding Biological Evolution from GMOs 2.0. The place to get critical up to date information, watch our short film and most importantly, learn easy ways for you to take action against this existential threat. Visit: https://protectnaturenow.com/

Notes for this week's Podcast
This week's Transcript

Rough Transcript:

Speaker 2: (00:08)
Hi, everyone. Today is a special day for me. This is my hundredth podcast in my 25th year doing GMO activism. And I decided

Speaker 3: (00:21)
I should do something special. And I just decided today to call up my very dear friend, Debra Potterman and say, Deborah asked me some questions about the last 25 years. And I don't want to think about it in advance. I want it to be just a conversation and I want to share. So I want to share that with you all and turn it over to you, Debra, so that you can start the process and we can get going.

Speaker 4: (00:45)
All right. First of all, I want to start off by saying, congratulations. I mean, you know, like a hundredth edition of your podcast live healthy, be well, I mean, that's like a big deal in 25 years of activism, which I'm going to ask you about needless to say. And I have to say in all sincerity, I've known you for almost 40 years or maybe even more than 40 years. Yeah. And, um, I am so proud to be your friend. I really am because so many people, you know, they talk about fighting things like climate change or racism or the destruction of our food supply. But you know, you didn't just talk, you know, you took action. It actually makes me emotional because you not only took action, but you took big action to educate people on. What's really happening with the introduction of GMOs and so much more. I mean, speaking and doing interviews all over the world and writing books and making films and exposing coverups by governments and biotech corporations. But more than that, it's being, um, fearless about it, like fearlessly, outspoken. I think that's why you're my hero, you know, miss niceness pattern, but it's like, you just are fearless about what you believe in. And even with the waders, the restaurant's going to wake up,

Speaker 3: (02:19)
But they did an education too about what the serve that's healthy,

Speaker 4: (02:22)
Right? When you go out with Jeffrey, he will question the way you person and I'm so happy, birthday, happy birthday, happy anniversary and 25 years. And, um, you know, and, and twenty-five years ago is it's before most people even knew the term GMO 25 years ago, I'd be hard pressed to find anybody who knew what a genetically modified organism was, but you were already doing work. And, um, but I was thinking when you called me and said, I want to be spontaneous, can you interview me? I thought, I don't really know how you got into this in the first place. So can you share that with us?

Speaker 3: (03:11)
Um, I was in Iowa where you and I met, um, I was probably in the same building, the same hall where I took your yes for success course in 1981, um, which you've pioneered in going around the world. But this was 15 years later. There was a genetic engineer who was blowing the whistle on genetic engineering. Very specifically, Monsanto was about to have its genetically engineered Roundup ready, soy and corn growing in Iowa. And this professor, this doctor knew that the technology that they had used to create the seeds was nowhere near, ready to be used in the food supply or the environment and that everyone who ate it would be subject to a long list of potential side effects. And he knew there was absolutely no way that anyone on earth could genetically engineer anything and keep it free from these unpredictable side effects.

Speaker 3: (04:16)
It was just prone to side effects, massive collateral damage in the DNA. And that that could create allergens, toxins and anti-nutrients. And that we were going to be eating this food unlabeled and that almost no one knew about it, but he also said that the environment was in parallel because once you release a GMO outdoors, it cross pollinates and becomes a permanent part of the gene pool passed on generation after generation. So I considered this an a plus issue and, uh, I realized we needed to have some kind of communication strategy about it, to find the truth and to share it with important people who could make decisions to stop it. And I would join marketing communications, strategic communications as my background and skill set. So I said, I think I'll help out for a little bit to see that we can get this, get this handled. And that was 25 years ago.

Speaker 4: (05:15)
Wow. You sure helped out a little bit. And um, so first of all, how many, uh, countries have you spoken to?

Speaker 3: (05:30)
I think it's 45. Um, and, uh, that's the, the main travel started in 2003. When I published seeds of deception, uh, before that I was doing local activism in Iowa and some national, but, but that was one, all of a sudden, I, I hit the world stage, so to speak with a very new specific strategically chosen angle that turned out to be very much, uh, in need popular and leveraged, which was focusing on the health dangers of GMOs and undermining the credibility of Monsanto and the FDA, the two major proponents that claimed that they were safe. I had to show that the science and statements by Monsanto were lies. I had to show that the FDA was a captured organization captured by Monsanto, which may, it was very easy. But then, so I cleared up the mindset from people like, okay, so we can't believe Monsanto.

Speaker 3: (06:30)
We can't believe the FDA, how bad is it? And then I had scientists tell the story, smooth stories in the book and that that hit a nerve. And then I built a movement with the Institute for responsible technology around the health dangers, conveyed to consumers. So consumers would make healthier choices to drive a tipping point of consumer rejection, which in fact is underway. So it took a while, but, uh, we now have 51% of the us population and 48% of the world's population understanding that GMO foods are unsafe. So the way that the surveys go is that they may be unsafe. We know that they are unsafe, but that concern was sufficient to drive buying trends and ingredients, selection among major food companies. So the tipping point is underway.

Speaker 4: (07:24)
So did you say 51% of the U S population knows that they're unsafe or thinks they might be unsafe? They might

Speaker 3: (07:30)
Be unsafe or believes that there could be long-term health dangers. I forgot how it was worded, but it's more than we need because it's not a vote it's influencing purchasing decisions to influence the marketplace, which is what

Speaker 4: (07:48)
I can't believe that you wrote seeds of deception. Those two, three, that, that is mind blowing to me because I'd be, first of all, it feels like it just came out. And then, um, genetic roulette came out after that. When did that one come out

Speaker 3: (08:04)
2007? Now the reason that came out is see, I had put together all these stories about the health dangerous and wove the health dangers into the book. And he was a book that people tell me they couldn't put it down or for some that were just so aggravated and outraged by Monsanto, they couldn't read too much of it. So they either read it in little bits so that they can digest it or they couldn't put it down. Um, and people all over the world. I mean, the book was translated in languages and marketplaces and people would contact me all over what I'm going to be testifying here. I'm going to be presenting here. What are the health dangers? And I'd have to compile them and then add to it and add to it. So I realized two things. First of all, I needed something that just gave the health dangers in an easy to read format.

Speaker 3: (08:52)
But I also had given my book seeds of, to countless, uh, senior political people, heads of state, parliamentarian, senators, members of the administry and ministers. And they always said, did you sign it every time they asked me to sign it? And then usually they're handed to a staff member and I'm sure they never saw it again. So I realized that the staff may look at it, but the politician is, you know, attention deficit fight by by trade. And so I had to create something that could, it could be read and understood by the 10th attention deficit politician, but also convincing enough for the staff. And so I wrote a booked in two page spreads where the left side was the conclusion and bullet points and a quote from the scientist and the right side was the details with 1,132 citations. So you can just flip through, and I explain this in the beginning, you just have to read the single sentence in the upper left-hand corner of the page. Nothing else. If you want to read more, you can read the main points. If you want to read more, you can read the quote from the scientists and then the details.

Speaker 4: (09:57)
And yeah, now it's going to say that's genetic,

Speaker 3: (10:01)
That's genetic roulette. And so I had to put it all together and I made it look like a textbook. Let me see if I have one room somewhere. I have a genetic roulette. Um, no, it's not here. It's in the, it's in the closet.

Speaker 4: (10:13)
I don't want to get up. I used to have it right on my day. I used to have it just, you know, I just moved. So my stuff is still in storage or else I would be able to pick it right up. Well,

Speaker 3: (10:24)
I wanted to show you the two K sprints anyway. Um, so, uh, that one, it's interesting that both filled a very needed gap in the messaging about GMOs that sort of caught fire. Um, one was the story book that became the international best-selling book and still remains the leader in that category. And the other one was just, the facts may have, you know, like where is what's? What is what's real? And what can we look at? And what can we quote? Where's the source of that? And both were attacked by the biotech industry and et cetera, but that's always that tells you to do them. Okay.

Speaker 4: (11:01)
I love stories. So can you share any stories that maybe from the books, or maybe from your travels inspirational or the opposite that just jump out at you from the last 25 years? Well, you know,

Speaker 3: (11:17)
It's interesting, there's so many that come to mind and I'm just like the, the entomologist who cornered me in, in Europe and explained how he was showing that Monsanto's or, uh, herbicides and GMOs were damaging a particular butterfly and how Monsanto released a press release that distorted his information claiming basically completely non-scientific Jabber and put it out so that the world would think that he was completely crazy and that he tracked it back and it was sent Monsanto's PR person. And when he confronted her, she said, well, I don't know. I just, it was put on my desk. So I sent it out. It was like, um, I remember sometimes what was impressive was how effective it was to visit as an American speaking against American policy based on science and, uh, with a relevance to that country. So I remember arriving, I went to Taiwan and, uh, by the time I arrived in Taiwan, seeds of deception was already a national bestseller, not a GMO seller who was a national bestseller.

Speaker 3: (12:31)
So it was on the bestseller list of the couple, all the books in the country. And my first meeting was a press conference. Um, and the press conference was me and another man who was a local politics. It was a pocket politician in Taiwan. He had been the prime minister of the country and had left when he finished the job, he started to promote organic food. This is in Taiwan, the guy that went from the prime minister position to talking about organic food. And he and I gave a press conference and he was telling the press about the stories in my book. And then, you know, then I had, I then met with the top people in the Senate and the other parliament and have dinner with them and explain what the story was and said, we need to do a hearing. And so they summoned their FDA. They someone, their USDA, they had me there, we did an hour's long investigation. They asked me all these questions. And at the end, they said, based on your book and your testimony, it's clear, we don't have the laws in this country that can address the risks of this technology. And we update our laws. And then soon after I left, they, they banned genetically engineered foods in, in school meals. Um, and then in South Africa,

Speaker 4: (13:51)
Tell us about South Africa. Are they still banned in Taiwan and for school foods? I don't know.

Speaker 3: (13:56)
I haven't heard anything since then about that. One of the issues is my staff has always been very small and following up has been a myth. You know, there's always more to do on my to-do list than I could possibly do. Um, and I was like talking to my friend Carey Gillam today, and she said, it's really busy. Are you busy today? I said, if I'm not busy, I'm playing hooky. It's like, there's always more to do than a day can handle. But, um, South Africa had a situation where, um, 2005, I went and, um, I gave an interview to their version of the wall street journal, their financial paper. And I said, it is crazy that you're feeding genetically engineered feed to animals and then trying to sell the animals to hear them. Did you know that many retailers in Europe have committed to their customers not to sell animal products from animals, spend GMOs, you are kicking in the, in, you know, basically it's a disaster to do that.

Speaker 3: (14:55)
Three weeks later, the country banned imports of genetically engineered feed for the purpose of evaluating its impact on the European exports. Also in the same trip I was interviewed by the star, the star or the sun, I forget. Um, and about genetically engineered bovine growth, hormone, Monsanto's milk drug. And I explained that it can cause cancer according to the research that is available at according to some of the blood samples on the scientists, um, privately, uh, and it went, it was, they wrote the article cancer in every drop and it was sent to all the tabloids. Every tablet in the country published it, it had the phone number of the south African dairy, dairy milk, dairy [inaudible] association in the bin. The thing they got flooded with calls the two major, um, uh, Woolworths and the other one, the two major, uh, chains made public statements.

Speaker 3: (15:57)
We don't use bovine growth hormone in any of our milk. It was like, it just took the country by storm a single, a single interview. So it was amazing how, like in one fell swoop, you can have all this impact. I remember the, the country government of Poland invited me in slew me from the United States to give a press conference with the minister of environment where I praised the country's non-GMO policy and food and animal fee. And a week later though, there was an election and that country was government was voted out in a pro GMO government, took its place. So I realized one of the lessons is that I can't rely on governments for long lasting laws. I have to work to Alston embed the knowledge of the dangers into popular culture, academia, et cetera. So that there's more stability.

Speaker 4: (16:53)
Okay. Well, I actually have a question about bovine growth hormones, but, um, let's see. Should I ask you that or ask you what's going on in the U S K, let me just ask you a little sidebar about bovine growth hormones, because bovine growth hormones are, are injected into the cows so that they mature more quickly so that they produce more milk and they produce more milk. Okay. And then we, we drank the milk. I mean, I have seen it is so clear that children mature much more rapidly than they used to. I mean, I remember my 12 year old friends, if they got breasts, it was like, Ooh, there's now nine year olds have breasts. And the only thing that I can attribute this to is that they're drinking milk and eating dairy products that have growth hormones. Is that true? Or it's not.

Speaker 3: (17:47)
So it's a great question. And there's a, not a yes, no answer. So it is possible that the milk from cows treated with genetically engineered bovine growth hormone could affect hormones and early maturation. Um, there's, uh, one, what are the hormones of some? The milk is called IGF one insulin like growth factor one, and it has been linked to cancer. So people with high levels of IGF, one, I think are seven times more likely to get prostate cancer, four times more likely to get breast cancer, uh, for premenopausal women. And it's in much higher levels in the milk from 3d counts. In fact, I spoke to a former Monsanto scientist who said three of his colleagues were testing the milk from treated cows. As Monsanto scientists found how much, how much cancer promoting hormone was in the milk and stopped drinking milk, unless it was organic.

Speaker 3: (18:41)
One of the three scientists bought his own cow. This was this how serious they treated this finding. Now, one of the people that I had the pleasure to work with through the years was Dr. Sam Epstein, and he's no longer alive he's. He was an expert at some of these environmental influences. And I asked him the question about early maturation. He said, it's possible, but he also pointed to an insert into a beef cows, the cows and bulls, I imagine, uh, which had, um, sex hormones produced for either 50 or a hundred days nonstop, which could also get into the bodies of the, of the youth. There's also estrogen mimickers in plastics. So I think that, and there's also changes in the, um, sexual hormones by some of the foods or some of the chemicals that are sprayed on our food. Um, so there's studies showing that flogs when they get atrazine, they can become both sexes or switching a male to a female.

Speaker 3: (19:49)
I mean, really serious shifts. Roundup works with a hormone that converts the testosterone to estrogen and can mess up that, that mix. So there could be changes in the sex hormones, uh, in the population as well, because Roundup is in a lot of food. So I would say there it is, it is extremely likely that is an environmental influence. And that part of that environment influence is the food. And they're part of that. Subset of that food could be the milk. Now, a lot of the dairies these days, however, have committed to not use bovine growth hormone. It'll say no artificial hormones, no rBGH, no RBST. And sometimes we'll see that on yogurt and cheese, but it's still, it's still used in the United States. It's not illegal.

Speaker 4: (20:39)
Okay. And that's what I was going to ask you. Um, our bovine growth hormones are our GMO back to GMO's. I remember years ago when I used to, I was actually one of the people who also was aware as I wrote my book, what no meat, you know, how to cook, who your vegetarian kids in 2001, it came out in 2002 and I talked about GMOs in my book. So, um, I was right there along with you, but through the years I would talk about it. And I would tell people that the European union did. Uh, and I remember, um, prince Philip was outspoken about GMOs, but I don't hear that much about it anymore. What's the current status of governments being, um, responsible in this way? Sure.

Speaker 3: (21:26)
It was prince Charles, not principal, but

Speaker 4: (21:30)
Charles. Oh, that's the dad.

Speaker 3: (21:33)
Yeah. Right. The dad. Um, so what's happening is the many people think that Europe banned GMO, they did ban bovine growth hormone. And I remember one of the statements made was it appears that we care more about our children health and the Americans. I mean, they were scathing. In fact, um, anyone that looked at, I mean, I wrote about this in seeds of deception and a little bit about it in genetic roulette, it was a disaster. It was an approval process that was overseen by former Monsanto people that have become people of influence in the FDA, the person in charge of policy at the FDA that ultimately approved. It was Michael Taylor. Monsanto's former attorney, Susan [inaudible] who had, who had, um, worked as a PhD candidate on bovine growth hormone for Monsanto, who was in charge of FDA's investigation. Uh, Margaret Miller had done articles for months Santo and then became the director of the division at the FDA that evaluated her own research.

Speaker 3: (22:34)
So it was basically, it was, you know, it was Monsanto evaluating Monsanto for the sake of getting their product onto the market, using rigged research. That was unbelievable. So for example, the FDA defended its approval by saying that I know I'm not answering your question, but it just reminded me. These are old here's options I gave years ago. So, um, FDA, um, approved my approved rBGH and then claim that it doesn't that there was no extra bovine growth hormone or growth hormone in the milk. Um, there's not a lot, but even if there was 90, 95% of it is destroyed during digestion or 90%. Now it turns out there was a 27% increase in growth hormone in the milk from cows treated with bovine growth hormone, but not by Monsanto's. It was another company that was never put on the market. And they were injected with 2% of the dose that Monsanto's did as part of their study. It was still 27% higher. But what they did is they say pasteurize the milk in this study to show that the growth hormone broke down, but it didn't only 19% broke, not 90%. So they pasteurize the milk at 120 times longer.

Speaker 3: (23:52)
Didn't do it. They added powdered hormone, did the milk like 47 times the amount that was naturally occurring, the milk they poured powder hormone into the note started up pasteurize it 120 times longer. And under those conditions, they destroyed 90% of the hormone break conditions. And that's what the FDA reported. 90% is destroyed during digestion. I mean, this reminds me of what happened in the, in the Monsanto trial, where in order to try and cover up the fact that when you spray Roundup on the cadaver skin, too much absorbs to be approved, it would have been rejected. They took human cadaver skin and they baked it in an oven. And then they froze that banked a human skin. So it was leather like edit Roundup to it, hardly any was absorbed. And they reported that absorption level to the EPA, never saying that they had baked and frozen the cadaver skin before they applied it.

Speaker 3: (24:45)
This is Monsanto science. So back to your question. So in the European union, they never banned GMOs. Uh, what they did is they were slow and approving the seeds for Europe. And there's only few seeds that are approved for, for planting. And most countries ban that, but they never banned the use of GMOs in the food supply. They never said, we're not going to accept it, but there was labeling. And as soon as labeling came out, it meant that the food companies were going to be exposed if they're using it. Then in the first chapter of my book, it's all about my dear friend, Dr. Arpad who's Ty, who is the world's leading researcher in his field, worked at the most prestigious, uh, research nutritional research Institute in Scotland and had done research on GMOs and discovered that they were a problem was fired and gagged and silenced.

Speaker 3: (25:42)
And finally his, his gag order was lifted by an order of parliament. And that's the day I that's the day I focus on the first page of the book seeds of deception. It was very dramatic and more than 700 articles were written about GMOs within a single month after he was able to speak. And it divided society into two warring blocks, according to one, one reviewer, and it spread all over Europe and the audience, the consumer said, we don't want them. So who banned GMOs in Europe? The food companies, the same multinational food companies, Nestle's a burger king McDonald's. They continued to sell it to the UN aware us consumers are continuing to sell GMO, stopped selling GMOs in Europe because they were going to be labeled. And because the Europeans knew about it. But that same thing that caused 700 articles in Europe and in England in a single month was described as one of the low, under most 10, most underreported events of the year in the United States by project sensor, us media watchdog group. So the, the tragedy was in the coverage. So I was aware of that, cause that was in 1999 and that was so I made it available in my book. And I realized what we need to do is to get coverage is to get the information that, that exposes the health dangers to a sufficient number of people. And then we can turn it around because that's what happened in Europe. And so then the book got out and the creative five movies and 45 countries and traveled endlessly for 13 years straight and, and it got out

Speaker 4: (27:22)
Well, then that brings me to my next question. And that is if there were one thing that everybody listening could do to support the work right now, you know, 20 years later, um, what would you tell us to do? I mean, we, I signed the petitions for labeling, you know, on my computer. What does that do I leave and give money to, um, Institute for responsible technology, everyone Institute, a responsible technology and, um, or the Institute for responsible technology. And, um, so we do that, but if you were to tell us an action, we can take to further support your work or to further support the future of our planet. What would you tell us to do? I would

Speaker 3: (28:10)
Say there's two things, not one, the one you already mentioned, and that is support us. Cause you said everyone listening. If we had everyone who was listening, contribute even $5 a month. And I say, her month, reason I say per month is if you contribute a certain amount that gets older deducted every month and you're comfortable being on our team and we know it's coming and by knowing it's coming, we can then hire that person, create that film, you know, spend the money to visit Washington and do our work there. It makes it budgetable. So I would love it for people, everyone listening to go to responsible technology.org and make a donation on a monthly recurring basis. That way we are secure knowing what we can spend.

Speaker 4: (29:05)
W and before you go any further, I want to say, I'm going to commit right now to do that. And I'm going to commit to $25 a month because what do we spend $25 on? I mean, you know, I was gonna say pizza and a beer. I don't eat either of them, but you know what I mean? I do eat gluten-free pizza with G with rice cheese, cheese, but anyway, that's one of them.

Speaker 3: (29:29)
I accept your $25 is such a generous donation. And I will tell you what I'll hold that $25 is in honor of my 25th year as an activist, 25

Speaker 4: (29:41)
Have said, and I'm doing it because of your twenties. I knew you thought that dad that, and, and I think about, you know, that, that, um, organization called acorn, where they take out, you know, a certain amount every month I've been doing acorn since they started notice that they take out $50 a month. How would I ever notice that there's 50, but yet I have this account growing, same thing, would I miss $25 a month? So I will really encourage everybody responsible technology.org. Let's give Jeffrey. And by the way, we did not talk about this. So this is coming up spontaneously truly, but let's give Jeffrey an anniversary present his hundredth podcast and his 25th years of activism for us for our future $25 a month. I mean, we won't even miss it and it'll, it could do tremendous work. It would enable Jeffrey to do the kind of work that we need for the future of our planet. So let's just go for it. Let's just make the pledge and do it. I feel like I'm on one of those pledge thens, you know,

Speaker 3: (30:56)
Old enough to remember the Jerry Lewis telephone.

Speaker 4: (31:00)
So I interrupted you. And what was the second thing we can do,

Speaker 3: (31:03)
First of all, thank you. Thank you so much. You're amazing. You've been a supporter deep supporter as a friend. And thank you. Now, the half of the Institute, we're going to spend your money wisely for you. Um, so the other thing is we're now looking to protect the global bio. Now, those of us, those of us we've been talking together for a while, know what that is, but just briefly, it's the microbial world, the viral world, the fungus, except drinking and algae, and that these little guys are under grave attack from GMO microbes microbes. As we know from, we didn't need a pandemic to know that microbes travel around the world and mutate, they also do swamp mates. So if you introduce a genetic element, that was never part of the millions of years of evolution, that didn't co-evolve with humans and other ecosystems, then you can disrupt damage and even collapse ecosystems by adding a single micro.

Speaker 3: (32:10)
And right now you can gene edit microbes for the price of dinner. If you have an eye, you can buy a, do it yourself, kit $169 and do several of them for a thousand dollars. You can have enough materials so that you can name your own micro. Then send it out into the environment. Like what happened in 1859 in Australia, when someone let out 24 rabbits. So that settlers would feel more at home to be able to hunt rabbits while rabbits multiply like rabbits. And by the 1920s, there was over 10 billion with the traveling. 10 billion is nothing. There'll be multiple trillions of trillions and trillions of microbes. If it happens to have certain characteristics, it can dominate and displace, disrupt, and collapse ecosystems, including the microbiome inside us. So this is an existential threat on our film. Don't let the gene out of the bottle, which is at protect nature.

Speaker 3: (33:01)
Now we have a 16 minute film. It's my most recent and my shortest. And it has a microbe that was almost released. It could have theoretically ended terrestrial plant life. Another one that could have changed weather patterns and other one that could have decimated the human population. Those are in the 16 minute film. And what we want people to do is to go to tech nature now.com the advocacy platforms take action, and then enter your, your contact information. And all of your elected officials show up all of your media in your area, show up and with a single click or more, if you want to customize the message, you can get information out to your elected officials that we have to thousands of them, not just in the us, but also Canada, Australia, EU and UK. So we have it set up right now today.

Speaker 3: (33:49)
It's on the, that's one of the two goals of our campaign to stop the, the gain of function, research of potentially pandemic pathogens. In other words, don't create path pathogens in laboratories, which are faced scape, could create new and even more dangerous global pandemics. It should be logical, especially in the face of hundreds of lab accidents. In the last few years, it should be obvious. It's not. We need to put it into law and no outdoor release of any GMO microbes anywhere on the earth. We need to, we need to use those dollars that are contributed in a monthly basis to open up offices around the world, to strengthen our more than 60 allies around the world to produce educational materials around the world, to send Mr. Smith to Washington, to talk to people and to get the information out so we can pass the laws to lock down GMO microbes, and there's already interest and support by members of Congress at this moment. And we have, we're already moving machine. Here we are. We have the momentum. We need more. So go to tech nature now, dot com. If you haven't seen the movie, you can start there. So you can feel really good about jumping on that advocacy platform and do that today.

Speaker 4: (35:01)
Okay. And you said, you said it three times, but you said it fast. So I'm going to say it slow protect nature now, dot calmer org, protect nature now.com. And then the name of the film is don't let the gene out of the bottle. It's only 16 minutes. Watch it. It is. It's kind of chilling. I have to say it's and how close we came, how close we came to two weeks

Speaker 3: (35:32)
Away. You'll see, I don't, they won't be a plot spoiler, but we were two weeks away from it. Be called a cab has trophy. It has to be called the town of closing. Now there's a bunch of ifs there, but still

Speaker 4: (35:45)
Just go ahead and watch it. And then, and there are a lot of, um, I'd say mostly young people now, who are, they want to have a cause they want to, you know, the Gretta Thurman's of the world, they want to save this planet from becoming extinct. And you would say that is also the advice to them. That's a place to start.

Speaker 3: (36:10)
Oh yeah. The thing is this, this is clearly an existential threat. I mean, you look at the film and it's like, yeah, that wasn't existential. But that one microbe was an existential threat. The other one that's a released the pathogen could have been decimated the human population with a 52%, uh, centrality rate. Um, yes. And it can alter our world forever. The microbiome of the soil is the supporting element for food production. The microbiome in the body determines our health in an incredibly efficient and miraculous manner. We outsource 90% of our daily functions to the microbiome. We're higher organisms because we rely not on their own 22,000 genes. Earthworms have more, what are the 3.5 million genes of the microbiome whose intelligence we access every day. And that evolved with us somehow over the millions of years of evolution, there's a certain microbe that knows, oh, you're in the second trimester.

Speaker 3: (37:13)
We're moving into the birth canal. Why? Because we digest milk. And so we're going to inoculate your baby so that when your baby is born, you can breastfeed and your baby can digest the milk, but that's not all, there's another set of microbes that move into the breast to feed the microbiome even more. But that's not all the structure of the milk. Some of it is indigestible by the infant. Is that a mistake from nature? No, it survives the digestion in the stomach. It survives digestion in the small intestine, so it can get to what it wants to feed the microbiome in the large intestine. But the breast milk is designed to help see the microbiome of the infant, because if it's healthy, it structures good health for the rest of that child's life and future generations, perhaps if they can pass it onto their future generation.

Speaker 3: (38:03)
So it's an incredibly intelligent channel micro Jedi army that works on our behalf every day. And we can disrupt the whole thing by a science experiment by a high school science experiment by, but we don't have to think about one because if we don't stop it, there may be millions of GMO microbes released into the environment, unrecoverable, untrackable, and they can share their genetic information. That's new and odd and mysterious with who knows any one of the trillion species in the microbiome with unpredictable consequences. And it's so fundamental to health. It's so fundamental to the environment. And I I'll tell you something after 25 years, Debra, uh, focusing on the food, what I saw, the new GMOs and how cheap and easy it was to create gene editing. I thought, oh, we're going to replace nature. If we don't stop this because you know, food choices will detect the food supply, but it will attack butterflies and DS and trees and breasts.

Speaker 3: (39:13)
And then I realized the microbiome is the most dangerous because you genetically engineer a human, but some people want to do well spread out until many, many, many, many, many generations are you genetically engineer micro, and it can go around the world and wheat. So this is why we have an urgent existential need. And I do love your appeal to the youth who want a cause because this is so winnable right now. If we wait 25 years after a million microbes have been released by various high school classes and academia and companies, I don't know what would be facing then. And we won't, we'll have a completely distorted, um, ecosystem set up if they still exist. So yeah, it has to happen very right away.

Speaker 4: (40:03)
Well, thank you for that. And again, those people also, they can go to protect nature now, um, dot com watch the film. I'm sure there's a form that says contact. Um, if you want to contact Jeffrey or his staff and, and, um, you know, get on board to, uh, be an advocate for this really, really urgent. Cause now the last thing I want to ask you, I, I'm not sure how much time we have. So I'm saying last thing, but maybe we have more, but on that

Speaker 3: (40:35)
We can wrap up what it feels like. You know, it's like how I used to put out my newsletter semi when Everly

Speaker 4: (40:46)
Got it. So it must not be whenever Everly right now, but okay. So the reason why I was going to say it's the last question is because one of the reasons I adore you and I love being with you is when I am freaked out and bummed out about the direction of our world and the corrupt government and the corrupt politicians and the cup corrupt biotech companies. And, and I just feel despondent. You always manage to find something positive. You're like, after we share all this yet on the other hand, you're the most optimistic person I know. Sometimes I remember we were standing on a porch and Sandra fell and I was like in tears, you're you're saying, no, no, don't worry. It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. Do you still think it's going to be fine?

Speaker 3: (41:39)
Yeah. Okay. You know, first of all, um, I love to do strategic planning to fix things. I love to fix things and I love to think huge. And my slogan is think huge thinking biggest. So last century. So what I looked and I tried to figure out, what is that? What is the most leveraged piece we can do to have the biggest impact? So for example, I'm just going to share my thinking. So there's, there's this side, but there's a little more to, to optimism as well. So what I'm thinking, okay. Would it be an activist and try and stop GMOs? I can, you know, fight them in court and that could be millions of dollars and they could lose I'll try and get new laws passed. Well, that could be millions of dollars and they could lose. I'm trying to do research and I'm not a scientist and can't afford the millions of dollars to do research.

Speaker 3: (42:35)
But the leverage is let's get people to avoid GMOs in the food supply. We don't need 51%, 5%. That was the thing I got out. 5% of the us population seeking non GMO would make it so obviously profitable for a company to switch to non GMO ingredients. So they wouldn't lose market share to their competitive competing product on the same shelf that says non GMO. And so how do you get 5% Mo I mean, it's easy. Go to the most receptive demographics, go to the parents of young kids, go to those that are sick, probably from GMOs or those that treat them go to the religious people that think GMO means God, move over. These people are pre-wired with receptor receptor cells, ready to accept the information. So you give people what they want. They choose healthier choices. They feel better. They get better. They tell their friends and we win.

Speaker 3: (43:31)
And that's what happened. So it was easy. Now I'm like, how do I get protect nature now to stop GMO microbes from around it? How do I get, how do I build a new movement quickly and not wait 25 years? So I'm thinking, okay, there are other movements out there. For example, there's the climate change movement. Huge. Everyone knows about climate change. One way of preventing or reversing climate change is through drawing down the carbon into the soil, which is part of regenerative. Agriculture. Regenerative. Agriculture is huge. Countries are adopting it. What is regenerative agriculture rely on the microbes, the microbes do the heavy lifting. If you mess that ecosystem up, you can just forget about regenerative agriculture and forget about sequestering carbon. So there's already organizations out there that do regenerative agriculture and climate change let's reach them. So the leverage piece is called my friend, Andre Lu.

Speaker 3: (44:25)
Who's the head of regeneration international. I said, watch the film. He calls me back and says, oh God, this is perfect. This it's hand in glove with regenerative agriculture. This is exactly what we need. We'll support you. We've got 340 organizations semi countries. He and I were going to do a webinar with others next in September. And we want to get, you know, we're looking for existing networks so that we can just do a little bit and it goes out to everyone. So as long as I'm holding those, those real practical solutions to fix things in a huge way that I have a plan. So having a plan, I never feel helpless. I can just driving people to what I think is the most leveraged action. So I'm glad you asked the question earlier about what action. So there's another piece and that is that it's a personal philosophy of mine.

Speaker 3: (45:21)
Also. I meditate practice transcendental meditation. This is my, I learned the day, the day we're doing this interview, uh, 1975. So this is also an anniversary of mine and that cleared stress and Clem opened my mind. And so there was a natural tendency to me to not be worried and anxious, um, just physiologically. And I know that I know the research there too, and it's very compelling and real. And then there's also the choice as a leader. And I have a speaker training program. We had about 1500 people, take the GMOs, pick a training program through the Institute. And I explained this there. I said, we don't need to be doom and gloom. We don't need to sound melodramatic, work telling a mother in our data. She fed her kids or what she ate during pregnancy may have caused a problem with her child. And that's more melodramatic.

Speaker 3: (46:29)
Then you meet you. You can think of, we need to be the hopeful beacon. They need to say, oh, there's Jeffrey Smith on stage. He knows more about the dangers of GMOs than I'll ever know. And he's still smiling and he's still optimistic. Yeah. And I make sure they know that because oftentimes when people hear information that's threatening, they can become disempowered. If you become disempowered, you're not part of the solution. Part of the problem. And to me, I look at that in a more global context. I think the education system, from what I understand and have confirmed last was designed from the freshen system, which was designed to create good soldiers. And it's also designed to create good workers, not good managers or generals, but the soldiers, the people followed. How did they do that in part by the disempowerment? Follow me, repeat after me, give your power to the teacher concept.

Speaker 3: (47:37)
Now that turns out to create an mindset in society. That is the foundation for why we have GMOs. It is, oh, it's someone else's responsibility. I'm sure they'll do a good job. I'll look over here. It's that? It's someone else's responsibility. I don't need to pay, pay attention. I've gone to so many governments and talk to government regulators, and they say, we don't need to review GMOs there. FDA reviewed it and approved it. They're shocked when I say, you know, the FDA doesn't review and approve it. They allow the companies like Monsanto to determine if the foods are safe. The FDA has only a voluntary consultation process. And at the end of the day, the letter that Monsanto gets says, this is to remind you that it's your determination is your responsibility to determine if your foods are safe, not the FDA. And you have determined that your foods are safe, no further questions.

Speaker 3: (48:28)
And that is the abdication from the federal government. And then you've looked at Monsanto and I talked to a former Monsanto scientist. And they said, well, they found that there was damage to rats. When the rats ate GMO corn, instead of withdrawing the corn, they rebuilt the study to hide the effects. So no one is guarding us. No one is protecting the henhouse except the Fox. And this concept that someone else will take care of. It needs the antidote in order for us to rid GMOs. And so what I did is I said, okay, let's do it for personal health. Let's focus on. We need to take over and choose what we want for our health and not, and not let Monsanto and its enforcement wing in Washington. Tell us what food is. We call that food shaped objects, not real food. It's GMOs, it's sprayed with Roundup, FSOs, flute, shaped objects, not what we want to feed our kids, not what we want to eat.

Speaker 3: (49:24)
So we need to take that power back, which is easier. Now we have to tell the government, not on our watch. You can't pollute the genome of the microbiome. We need to take over the mindset that it's our responsibility. So some people listening may go, yeah. Um, someone else will do it. Someone else will take care of it. And that's okay. Not everyone is called to do this, but, but even if you don't do the action and I hope you do realize that it is in fact, the responsibility of this generation, this generation, we come to an inevitable time in human history, where we can redirect the streams in evolution for all time, easily and cheaply. For the price of dinner. We have our micro version of rabbits that will, can change the course. And nature of nature with this new technology comes a new responsibility.

Speaker 3: (50:25)
We can hold it as a burden, or we can hold it as owner in the past. No human could damage all living beings and all future generations. Like we can know. So this means we have an opportunity to protect all living beings and all future generations, wow. An opportunity to protect all living beings and all future generations. In fact, it is interesting if we just look at it from a different angle and realize, oh, we are at risk of an existential crisis. And the solution is an up leveling of our awareness as humanity. So we become stewards of nature instead of battling it, overcoming it, manipulating it for our means at the molecular level, we need to protect it. And when you need to do it in this generation, it's like at the very moment that the threat is so real, where right now, as we're speaking, there's robots, creating new gene sequences, driven by artificial intelligence in hundreds of places in a raise in big factories.

Speaker 3: (51:34)
And if they happen to escape, that's all new organisms that can then swap and change and change. We have now arrived at the absolute requirement as a species, as a planet, forcing us to make choices at the same time, looking at it from another angle, the pandemic, the pandemic has a silver lining. In this regard, everyone is aware about microbes. Now everyone is aware how microbes travel. People want to do something to protect future generations from pandemics. So we have end of gain of function of potentially pandemic pathogens as meeting an unmet need. And if you're really implementing the lessons of the pandemic and you're understanding the role of microbes and how they affect, not only in the body putting any environment, you need to also not release any GMO microbes, it's the same package to the most receptive humanity ever, never before have we had this level of receptivity for this message at a time when it's absolutely essential and that it's demanding, stepping up to a higher relationship with nature, a new way of defining ourselves and defining humanity.

Speaker 3: (52:54)
So we can just take that vision. And the leaders there take that vision out to the world and say, yes, is our responsibility. And I'm going to do something about it and, and protect nature. Now it can take two and a half minutes and you're done. And then we'll let you know next month where to spend your two and a half minutes or twenty-five dollars. And we don't have to tell you next month because it's going to be automatic. We're going to make it as simple as possible. Well, we asked you to participate as a team member in this human endeavor. Can I give you an amen?

Speaker 4: (53:37)
And, um, and the, one of the thing I was thinking is that not only those of you who are listening to this, but also pass this interview onto your friends, if you could send them the link to this, because I think Jeffrey you've explained so many things. Um, so clearly things that many people had no idea about. And also as soon as they now do have the idea about it, they definitely will want to know what they can do and how they can participate. And you just made it so simple, [email protected] and go to protect nature. Now watch the 16 minute film. And when you sign up there, you'll continue to get, uh, emails. I know I get them about what you can do on a regular basis. So instead of just complaining with your friends about, oh my goodness, all the people who are drinking milk with bovine growth hormones, oh my gosh, our government, we can do something about it. One

Speaker 3: (54:40)
More website, and that is live healthy. Be well.com. You can access this podcast, secret ingredients and movie to convince everyone to go organic the 90 day lifestyle upgrade to help you go organic healing from GMOs and Roundup to help detox with both of them or the body before you went organic. And, um, so there's, there's, uh, you know, over 25 years or sort to develop portfolio, that's only like a handful of Debra. I am. I just had this thought today because you know, our, our podcast engineer said, do you know what, this is your hundredth podcast? Do you want to do something special? And so I said, yeah, yeah, tomorrow I'll, I'll get, I'll do something special. I had no idea what I was going to do. And so, um, I set up the computer and I was like, oh, it's not working. And then I had the boom call Deborah, let's do this as a, as a dialogue. And thank you so much. Well,

Speaker 4: (55:36)
Thank you so much. You have no idea how honored I am. The hundredth podcast, the 25th anniversary of, um, your activism, your meditation anniversary, what an auspicious day. And really, and truly as I started off the beginning, I'm saying, I just feel so proud when your name comes up in conversations. And I say, well, he's been my friend for 40 years. Remember we went to that health food restaurant, um, in wheeling, Illinois. And, or was it weekend wheeling? I get the two mixed up. And um, I said, oh yeah, you might know my friend Jeffrey Smith. And it was like, it was kind of like, I was there with Elvis, you know, I thought the girl was going to faint when I said that it was you. So I have to tell you, you are like the Elvis of, of the, um, the world of, uh, protecting us from, um, the devastation that could happen if it wasn't for good people, like you caring about us. So thank you so much.

Speaker 3: (56:43)
Thank you, Debra. And to everyone safety,

Speaker 2: (56:55)
Thank you for listening to live healthy. Be well, please subscribe to the podcast, using whatever app you're listening to podcasts with, or go to live healthy, be well.com to subscribe. This podcast will inform you about health, dangerous corporate and government corruption and ways we can protect ourselves, our families and our planet. I interview scientists, experts, authors, whistleblowers, and many people who have not shared their information with the world until now, please share the podcast with your friends. It was enlightened and may even save lives. Safety.

Speaker 1: (57:32)


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