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In This week's podcast jeffrey interviews the developer of BrocElite, Dr. John Gildea and a practitioner who's been using it in his clinic, Dr. Martin Katz. BrocElite is a stabilized sulforaphane and Jeffrey translates the science into language that everyone can understand, and we think you will want to hear. Click here for our exclusive discount of up to 17% on your order.
Notes for this week's Podcast
Jeffrey Smith (03:12):
I'm going to ask John to riff on the corona virus because John, I understand you're working in the laboratory doing some research on a particular pathway that happens to be influenced by the coronavirus and we all are open ears to what is this thing doing? What do we need to know about it? Okay. So let's start, and this is, we're going to start with the coronavirus angle and what it does with NRF-2. And we'll have to figure out what, how to refer to NRF-2. It's kind of a boring title. Have to come give it a nickname. So John can use, tell us what Corona, what NRF-2 does and what coronavirus does to it. And then we're going to swoop in with the superhero, sulforaphane.
John Gildea (04:00):
Yeah, so I think a good way to think about it is that this pathway that sulforaphane activates, um, the NRF-2, it's your body's response to toxins. And so the way your body responds to toxins is to protect it by activating this pathway. It induces a whole bunch of enzymes that protect reactive oxygen species and also stimulate the detoxification pathway. So in the case of, um, um,
John Gildea (08:05):
So obviously it hasn't been studied with the current pandemic virus, but for many viruses, and enough to is downregulated very similarly to like that glyphosate does. So it's, making the cell vulnerable. When NRF-2 is induced, it turns on. I love your analogy of the army. There's a whole series of enzymes that are turned on that each one of them can over and over and over again, inactivate these reactive oxygen species and many different versions of it, you know, peroxide nitrile all these, um, there's a battery on them and there's a bunch of enzymes that get turned on. So when NRF-2 is, down-regulated by infection, that cell is now not happy. It's sick. And, uh, that sick cell is the one that gets infected and it's the one that makes and generates the virus particles and perpetuates the infection. So the direct, reasoning is that viruses themselves turn off NRF-2 and that, sulforaphane turns on NRF-2. So it seems like, we don't know this but it seems like a good idea for you to be healthy. Your cells are healthy, then your whole body will be health
Martin Katz (10:53):
So big picture I think is while we hopefully want to look at it, and when we look at this bias, um, it needs, yeah, hospitable host, right? Somebody who's vulnerable. And when we look at who's most vulnerable to the spores, we certainly see the elderly and it is unfortunately affecting people who are younger. But when we look at our general population, how much we travel, how sleep deprived we are, how nutrient deprived we are, we, we sort of realize that, you know, there's more than just the elderly that are effective, but they have the sort of cumulative effect, whether it's, you know, toxins like glyphosate, um, or these senescent cells that are just gotten sick. This system is now not working as well. So NRF-2 is downregulated, but there's also inflammation. There's an imbalance of proteins that will help fight off the cell structure.
This week's Transcript
Hi everyone this is Jeffrey Smith from the Institute for Responsible Technology and I am joined by Dr. John Gill day and Dr. Martin Katz. Welcome gentlemen.. You may have met these guys when we did a webinar on the impact of their stabilized sulforaphane called BrocElite and we talked about how glyphosate damages the cells in a couple of ways and how the BrocElite protected the cell from that damage and we're going to talk about that, but that's not why we're interviewing you guys here today. We're interviewing you today because of the pandemic and because BrocElite or sulforaphane general has been studied extensively and shown to create tremendous benefits for the body, for the health, for the immune system in response to specific diseases and certain systems. And we even know that there's something that the coronavirus does that's bad, that we've seen protection for in your own research.
So we're going to talk about that to start because everyone has coronavirus on the mind. We want to know what is it that the coronavirus does that we might be able to help. We're not going to say that BrocElite or sulforaphane is a treatment for coronavirus. That's a no-go. We never will say that. We're never going to prescribe this as a regimen to prevent specifically the coronavirus. We're just going to share with you some research which I found interesting and if you were to spend some time on the internet and do some research, on sulforaphane you will find almost 40 different conditions and systems that have shown improvement in peer reviewed published studies. And what's interesting is, and I'm just doing this quickly so you can get the whole picture very quickly. Most of the studies that show the highest efficacy were done by Johns Hopkins in sulforaphane that they produce very expensively and then apply to human cells, etc.
But that's not what's available commercially. What's available commercially is not sulforaphane except in the BrocElite. What's available is the precursor to sulforaphane and only a small percentage gets converted to sulforaphane. Depending on the health of your gut bacteria, even if it's healthy, it's only a small percentage. And so the research, it's kind of like an ideal situation, but not necessarily what you'd get from buying something that has self your fan on the package. However, John here, the guy on the left, Dr John Gildea, that one, a genius in the laboratory has stabilized sulforaphane in a way that actually can be more bioavailable to the cell apparently according to one study. Then the John Hopkins version. So we're going to talk about sulforaphane in general, but first I want to talk about sulforaphane and then coronavirus. And then after we've talked about sulforaphane in general and the specific qualities of BrocElite.
Jeffrey Smith:I'm going to ask John to riff on the corona virus because John, I understand you're working in the laboratory doing some research on a particular pathway that happens to be influenced by the coronavirus and we all are open ears to what is this thing doing? What do we need to know about it? Okay. So let's start, and this is, we're going to start with the coronavirus angle and what it does with NRF-2. And we'll have to figure out what, how to refer to NRF-2. It's kind of a boring title. Have to come give it a nickname. So John can use, tell us what Corona, what NRF-2 does and what coronavirus does to it. And then we're going to swoop in with the superhero, sulforaphane. Go ahead.
John Gildea :Yeah, so I think a good way to think about it is that this pathway that sulforaphane activates, um, the NRF-2, it's your body's response to toxins. And so the way your body responds to toxins is to protect it by activating this pathway. It induces a whole bunch of enzymes that protect reactive oxygen species and also stimulate the detoxification pathway. So in the case of, um, um,
Jeffrey Smith : Well then let's just be clear there because anytime, anytime you speak with jargon, I'm going to swoop it on behalf of those anti jargon folks to try and translate it into English. Okay. Detoxification. We all understand and what's interesting is in, in our discussions before we found out that glyphosate, I know I'm getting this in there because it's the way I think it's my, I see that the world through glyphosate colored glasses. That's a hard thing to say. I don't want to say that. Well, let's just say that when you add a glyphosate, to a Petri dish with human cells, it reduced NRF-2, which means that it stopped cellular detoxification or reduced cellular detoxification, which is horrible to think because that means we have a little glyphosate in our system and all these other toxins can hang around longer in the cells, not just glyphosate. Is that right? That's right. Now you said react oxygen. Tell me about the reactive oxygen species. Well, what is that? Yeah.
Martin Katz : So reactive oxygen species are these molecules that are created just with cellular respiration. So as we're creating energy to think, to breathe, to move very relevant fingers, the powerhouse in our cell that mitochondria is using generally fat, but also glycogen or glucose to create this, ATP molecule oxygen happens to be the final receptor. There your, the electronics after you create water. The interesting thing about oxygen is it's very electrophilic and really likes electrons. And if it's, if it's, um, a gaining electron that becomes a radical or it's called an oxidant or a superoxide radical, and that guy is generally balanced by the cell's ability to give it electron. So it's has a happy outer shell, but if it's not, it becomes the Hulk and starts destroying things. Whether it's DNA, even our membrane of our style, the proteins that cause misfolding, it causes a lot of things.
And so now you'd ask for why in God's name, do we even create those things? Well, they actually are very important in cell signaling and we all know there's a big difference between acute inflammation where we injure something and we're red and we're inflamed. Those are the, those are the molecules that are signaling to your immune system and to all these growth factors to come in and fix it. And acutely, we really want that to happen, but we do not want that to happen on a chronic basis. That chronic basis leads to disease where we're now are affecting the, the lipid molecules of the membrane. Again, the proteins within the cell that help everything happen with the DNA. That's when we start seeing disease.
Jeffrey Smith: All right. So I want to drill it back to NRF-2 and be specific about what it, what it does. Because we know that the coronavirus messes that up. We talked about the detox, the purifier. Great. But then there's also this, Paul Revere announcing, you know, "The British are coming," getting the information out to the others and we want it to be the alarm bell for acute inflammation, but we don't want it to be the Hulk to destroy. So what, tell us what the coronavirus does and in terms of this detoxification and whether it muzzles Paul Revere, whether it instigates the Hulk, tell us what it does on the level of the system. And if you use jargon and you're allowed to, I will come in and swoop in with cartoon characters. Go ahead.
John Gildea: So, um, obviously it hasn't been studied with the current pandemic virus, but for many viruses, um, and enough to is downregulated very similarly to like that glyphosate does. So it's, making the cell vulnerable. When NRF-2 is induced, it turns on. I love your analogy of the army. There's a whole series of enzymes that are turned on that each one of them can over and over and over again, inactivate these reactive oxygen species and many different versions of it, you know, peroxide nitrile all these, um, there's a battery on them and there's a bunch of enzymes that get turned on. So when NRF-2 is, down-regulated by infection, that cell is now not happy. It's sick. And, uh, that sick cell is the one that gets infected and it's the one that makes and generates the virus particles and perpetuates the infection. So the direct, reasoning is that viruses themselves turn off NRF-2 and that, sufloraphane turns on NRF-2. So it seems like, we don't know this but it seems like a good idea for you to be healthy. Your cells are healthy, then your whole body will be healthy.
effrey Smith :So let me see if I got this right. In terms of the NRF-2, you talked about the army. So typically, one of the strategies for a battle is to disable the enemy's communication ability prior to just before the invasion. And this seems to be what the virus is doing. If you stop Paul Rivera and he can't say: "The British are coming," and you don't have the Navy, you didn't have an air force. Is there any way you don't have any, you don't have the different components of the defense system. And then the defenseless cell gets over run. So what we're saying is that one of the ways that the virus works is it disables the ability for the alarm to go off from the cell to recruit all of the defensive measures. As you said, all those different names that I'm not going to repeat. And then, then it can, by disabling the communication through acute inflammation, it becomes vulnerable. And this is what you said happens in response to a lot of viruses. Yeah. Correct. So then, yes, go ahead. And by the way, John, on the far left is the scientist, Martin on the right is the doctor and Martin, you've been seeing the clinical application of BrocElite and what it does. So, and you also know all about the research. So go ahead.
Martin Katz:So big picture I think is while we hopefully want to look at it, and when we look at this bias, um, it needs, yeah, hospitable host, right? Somebody who's vulnerable. And when we look at who's most vulnerable to the spores, we certainly see the elderly and it is unfortunately affecting people who are younger. But when we look at our general population, how much we travel, how sleep deprived we are, how nutrient deprived we are, we, we sort of realize that, you know, there's more than just the elderly that are effective, but they have the sort of cumulative effect, whether it's, you know, toxins like glyphosate, um, or these senescent cells that are just gotten sick. This system is now not working as well. So NRF-2 is downregulated, but there's also inflammation. There's an imbalance of proteins that will help fight off the cell structure.
The actual structure of the respiratory epithelium is not as intact, possibly a little broken. So these viruses aren't just rejected off the epithelium. They're actually then getting in and creating the problem. So, you know, from a perspective of I'm looking at who's getting infected, we now realize that yes, the people who are most deal have the most imbalance of antioxidants to oxidante balance. Those are the ones that are getting effective. So they have NRF-2 down regulated likely from numerous different reasons. Um, they have inflammation going up and inflammation can have an effect as well on NRF too. And so what we want to do is really encourage health, across the board. So, you know, obviously as, as we like to talk about prevention and education, you're making sure you're well-hydrated and making sure that your mucus layer is healthy so you can actually reject the virus, made sure that the junctions between the cells are intact.
And there is some evidence out there that, um, sulforaphane does help to protect the junctions. Certainly in the gut it helps what's called GLP-2 to improve the health of that membrane which decreases IL-6. So there's not as much inflammation. We know the immune system does not work as well where there's inflammation. So if you're limiting inflammation, we did a study, John did a study on IL-6, and then I'll direct an inflammatory interleukin. And there's all these and there's tons of others. It diminishes those. So now the immune system can work better. So if there is a virus getting in your, your immune system can work, decrease that. And then as you're, increasing the stress within the cell and creating all this downregulation, if you have some, a healthier cell, you're going to be able to limit the replication of the virus so it doesn't go back out and, and again affects somebody or infect somebody else.So, you know, the, the wonderful thing about NRF-2 is it works in so many wonderful ways and certainly sulforaphane works in so many wonderful ways to decrease that ability, looking at certain viruses, to have its effect on the human body.
Jeffrey Smith:So what I'm hearing is that it's got border security - the epithelial cells in the gaps,."Coast Guard". It's got the, the cops to remove the bad actors, the detox. The inflammatory, the, the, those that are inciting violence, those are ushered out. So the IL-6 interleukin 6, which is an inflammatory agent for sure, jolt provocateur. The communication goes out to a whole bunch of other, other components to come in and swoop in. And do you have actually done research on the IL-6, on the border security, on the detox, on the whole NRF-2 level. So, let's talk about that research now. Are we finished? Are we finished introducing the, the superhero NRF-2, and we're ready to go into, Oh, so there's one, one more player that is interesting. Um, again, uh, no direct evidence for this, but um, I'm sure some people have heard of and even worse an acronym. Then NRF-2 is a, it's called TMPRSS2. Oh, it's, it's intuitive. Yes. This and that's on that, that's on the tour of the time of all merits songs about that people, there's Epic poems about it. It was one of the, I wasn't better known as trans membrane protein as a proteasome as serine protease.
John Gildea:So it's a protease that's necessary to clip both the strike protein on the coronavirus and to process, the ACE2 - the receptor for the coronavirus. And it's absolutely necessary for infection. And what is known from other studies is that NRF-2 activation decreases that serine protease. So it's not a direct link, but this processing enzyme that's necessary for infection is downregulated.
Jeffrey Smith: So let me see if I have this right. coronavirus has these grappling hooks they send them and they, they attach themselves in order to do their work so they have to lock in and that somehow they NRF-2, um, makes it harder for those things to grab on so that the coronavirus can do its work. Would that be a fair, a fair translation?
John Gildea: Yeah, and there's a lot of studies on that with other viruses that use the same mechanism to infect. Those haven't been done on the current virus, but it is known that they use the same mechanism.
Jeffrey Smith :All right. So I'm getting that. Having a healthy dose of NRF too is probably a good thing for people in general. And particularly now, let's now introduce your research. Tell us what you found with NRF two. Um, and what the broccoli did for them.
John Gildea :Yes. So the, um, the current research that I work on is hypertension in the kidney. Part of that system opposes each other - the dopaminergic system dopamine and the angiotensin system which opposes dopamine. So knowing that system very well and in a blood pressure regulation and salt sensitivity I guess it gives a little bit of insight into this ACE2 gene.
Jeffrey Smith :Well, we support ACE2 are we going to go? I mean, um, let's, I want to make sure we finish with the NRF-2 and the, the research you did on the glyphosate, whichI know I don't want to be a plot spoiler here, but it's kind of exciting. I mean are you going there? Cause I want to make sure we get that.
John Gildea :Yeah. So I was going to talk about the angiotensin system, but it's probably best to talk about, um, NRF-2, and the studies that we did on glyphosate.
Jeffrey Smith :I wanted you to do that first because [inaudible] the gun with NRF-2. Let's, let's, let's make sure we finish that arc and then people go, yeah, how do we not make it the Hulk. How do we make it the Paul Revere and the postcard, ect.
Yeah. So the short story is that, um, if you have glyphosate in the system and down-regulates NRF-2, and it's, it's in general going to make the entire system less, efficient at fighting any infection, let alone, these virus particles. So I think that the take home message of that is that, we for sure should be eating organic foods that don't have glyphosate in it because of thi would be, I think, just an obvious first step to do, to make yourself healthier and able to fight off all viruses, all bacterial infections by, contracting. You know, the, the glyphosate turning off NRF-2 is really not a good thing.
Jeffrey Smith: And what, what percentage did you notice in terms of reduction in the particular research you did when you add a glyphosate to the human cells?
John Gildea It was more than 50%. Hmm.
Jeffrey Smith: So more than 50% reduction in the ability of NRF- to call for help, protect the membranes, reduce the inflammation, et cetera. This is significant. And so more than 50% in a human cell. Mmm. In a Petri dish where you edit a look. Glyphosate. So what happens when you did the research on the BrocElite? The stabilized sulforaphane?
John Gildea: So using a, using a dose that is achievable in the body, um, put on those cells, it double the amount of NRF-2 activation. And so that will be thought of as protective. And then even when you put both of them together, the amount of NRF-2, (glyphosate and sulforaphane) Yeah. I never have my perfect without glyphosate as a kind of cocktail to activation is still higher than basil Higher than, yeah. Unstimulated state.
Jeffrey Smith: All right. I'm going to translate what you just said because I love that. If you put glyphosate in the cell, it reduces the NRF-2 by more than 50%. So it drops by more than half. But if you put glyphosate in the cell, if you put, um, sulforaphane that stabilized in BrocElite in the cell at a dose, that's what you would, what the cell would get if you just took the normal dose each day, the, the relevant dose and it doubles the NRF-2. So now here we have math. Let's say we put them both in the cell. It actually still goes up, not doubles, but it still goes up higher. Then the cell was before both were added. So not only does it protect against the downregulation of glyphosate, the reduction that glyphosate would do, but it bolsters it and makes it even higher. I love this fact. I love the fact that it's not just protecting against glyphosate, it still makes it better. So thank you for doing that research. Now we've been talking about, is there anything else about this research, cause I'm going to jump to, to the next glyphosate study them that you've told me about. Just to finish the glyphosate piece.
Martin Katz :That's it. Clinically, you know, again, if you're, if you look at glyphosate and what it does, creating so many problems, again in the, in that barrier, we know it has an effect on tight junctions. We know again, it's going to create toxins which will then likely increase inflammation. It was a very small study I think done down in Australia looking at glyphosate and response to viruses, possibly an increased risk on this ARDS this acute respiratory distress syndrome. And that would be disturbing because obviously that's how coronavirus is killing so many folks. And, and again, coronavirus a little bit different from what from influenza. Influenza, a lot of people die from secondary bacterial infections. With coronavirus, a lot of people are dying from primary pneumonitis created by this virus so that the lung gets very inflamed and people going into what's called acute respiratory distress syndrome. And that's obviously what we want to limit. Um, and certainly by limiting exposure toxins. And one of the ones we obviously don't like, and this show is a lot to say, it would be extremely important, but there's lots of toxins out there. So we have something that can upregulate NRF-2, like sulforaphane which is an amazing detoxifier. It's being touted as the strongest phytonutrient detoxifier out there. Turn on of NRF-2. You're going to be likely ahead of the curve, which is where you want to be.
Jeffrey Smith: And before we get off of, I like that, I appreciate it. I didn't realize about that research in Australia. Rarely can someone introduce research on glyphosate that I haven't heard about and vetted. So thank you for that. I'll, I'll move to look that up. Um, it's interesting that, uh, just to give a perspective, the main one of the main detoxifying organs in the body is the liver and then there's also a cellular detoxification pathway. The NRF-2 is cellular throughout the body and the liver detoxification pathway is also hammered by glyphosate through the P450 cytochrome pathway. In other words, that the army that goes in that starts cleaning up, cleaning the enzymes and clean up with the liver and that gets a problem and you end up with all sorts of issues on the liver. So you definitely want to be eating organic at this time.
Jeffrey Smith:I can't emphasize this enough. Um, and we'll be talking about that in some separate, um, videos. And just to finish on the glyphosate since we started, I want to get into general sulforaphane benefits. Mmm. And then I want to go right into this, um, understanding coronavirus better John, through your research, um, on hypertension at all. Um, you told me that we've been talking about what happens inside the cell, but there's also communications between the cells and that that's something that is measurable and that there's something called gap junctions, not tight junctions, which keep the cell connected, but just to confuse us. The tight junctions close the gap, but the gap junctions don't the gap junctions are the actual communication network between the cells and that when you added glyphosate to human cells, the gap junctions ability to communicate between the cells dropped. Is that right?
John Gildea: Yeah, that's right. There's a number of different, um, assays that are used. An assay is a test that, functionally measures these gap junctions, these small tunnels that go in between cells. And any small molecule under a certain size is able to be passed between cells. And so it makes the group of cells act like one. And so when glyphosate disrupts these gap junctions, it's making the organ less able to act like an organ. And, um, whenever you decrease an organ function, there's usually pretty big consequences to that. And so the ability for glyphosate to do that is, um, was pretty disturbing to find.
Jeffrey Smith :And that's related to cancer. I understand that if there's a lower gap junction.
Martin Katz:Also aging actually as an organ loses its function, you know, you're, you're gonna likely have disease and aging as well.
Jeffrey Smith :I'm sheltering in place in California, right? So we're creating isolation, however, we can get deliveries, ups, FedEx, the U S mail, and we're connected by the internet. So we can talk, we have FaceTime, we have Zoom, we have phone calls. And so we can appreciate inability for molecules to go between cells by saying, okay, well now what if you were to shelter in place and there were no deliveries and there were no phone calls and there were no Zoom connections and FaceTime connections and you were completely alone. So the idea of functioning as an organ is like the idea of losing the functionality as a society or a community and without the ability to get food and nourishment, then the individual cells or individuals shelter in place would suffer.
So I'm living that example of thank goodness we have deliveries and that goodness, we have communication between these sheltering in place homes, me being in one of them and now the other foot drops. What, how much was the reduction by glyphosate? And this is certainly going to relate, I think, to the immune system's overall immune health to protect against viruses. We'll ask that in just a moment, but I want to get to my favorite number here. And the gap junctions. What was the reduction and the gap junctions amount and what happened when you added the broccoli at a dose that was equivalent to what you take per day?
John Gildea: It's been awhile since I did that experiment. There's a, there's a lot of experiments between the time I did that, but I believe it is close to 70% reduction. Similar to the glyphosate on the hepatocytes or the liver cells, increased gap junction on its own.
Jeffrey Smith:So, so it on its own and increased the gap junction when it was putting together. Did you do that piece
John Gildea :normal and it was slightly higher from what I remember.
Jeffrey Smith:Again, same thing as the NRF-2. So those are, those are examples that some of our listeners are aware of because we cover that in more extensively in previous webinars. Would you say, And I, it's kind of like throwing a song, slow softball, they hit it out of the park. Would you say, gentlemen, that gap junction health would be helpful for the body to withstand viral infection?
Martin Kat: Absolutely. There's, um, I think there's a lot to be said for cellular communication and, uh, not only intracellular but inter not intercellular, but also intracellular communication. Um, I think the cells that are communicating better will have a far better chance of survival, limiting, uh, the effect that the cell has, uh, by learning from, from what's happening. And it's next door neighbor for sure.
Jeffrey Smith :Now you've tested interleukin six. You've tested the, the epithelial cells or the cells around the gap junctions around the gaps around the cell membranes. You've tested the NRF-2 and you've tested the gap junctions. These are things that you've tested where you can identify what stabilize sulforaphane does in the system. When you look at the literature online, there's a lot of systems. There's a lot of diseases that are found to have responsiveness in the peer reviewed literature. So can you just name other things that others have found about the benefits of sulforaphane, even if it was the John Hopkins study and not that, just so we understand what this substances is and why, and we'll talk about why it's called BrocElite in a minute. Plot spoiler broccoli sprouts. So, um, what else does it do, uh, to the system? And can any of that be, uh, used to protect against viral infection?
Martin Katz : Yeah, I'd love to talk to them totally about that. So it does a new numerous things. So this whole proteasome that John was talking about, proteases, proteasomes those need to be in and, and really this TMPRSS2, this trans membrane protein, um, that is essential for coronavirus. The reason it's increased in expression is because there's an imbalance. And certainly part of that is protein misfolding. What's happening at that epigenomic level? And when you look at what, um, sulforaphane does, it very much has an effect on the epigenome through something called HDAC - histone deacetylase - easy for me to say. Yeah, I always make that same mistake. So HDAC so it's going to help in that, protein balance as well. The thing that's, sort of near and dear to me is if you look at this hyper response, again, this ARDS, this acute respiratory distress syndrome.
Martin Katz: The interesting thing about the immune system, if you bring in the armed forces and they annihilate everything, you're not in, in a great place. And that's really what an ARDS is. It's almost an overreaction duty, what the virus is causing. And if you can regulate that immune response, you're ahead of the curve. And so these Th1 response Th2, Th17, these are all the inflammation, all of this innate and adaptive immune response. And obviously that's incredibly important because if you don't have a good response, you're not going to be able to fight off what's coming in. But you also want to be able to regulate that. And there's very few molecules out there that regulate both sides and likely, um, because of its effect on it on NF Kappa B, which is an inflammatory aspect, IL-6 - interleukins, chemokine, it has a T regulatory effect as well. So it's helping you limit the amount of response. So it's having an appropriate response but also not having an overabundance in response.
Jeffrey Smith :So this is, this is from the sulforaphane literature that it does modulate the inflammatory response too. It's not like "kill everyone," "kill everyone". And then, you know, the, the, the, the, the army or this, the soldiers that were brought in to protect and the destroy.
Martin Katz: Yeah. So the molecule that's probably the most studied with NF Kappa B, this, this inflammatory aspect is curcumin. Um, and we love curcumin. Stay tuned for us coming out of the very bioavailable curcumin. Mmm. But, fortunately, and if, uh, so if your thing does have an effect on NF Kappa B. And so, you know, again, it does down-regulate some of that inflammation. And so that's an, a very important clinical aspect of your response and certainly very, very important to the coronavirus.
Jeffrey Smith: All right. So just to put that, I mean, in our same kind of, um, metaphor that while, once the army and air force and coast guard are called in, there needs to be order. It needs to be not just attack everything, protect and all that, because that becomes itself destructive. And that's what causes this acute respiratory distress syndrome is what you're talking about. If there's, there's full on unmodulated unresponsive protection. Yeah. If it's not coordinated and, and that NF Kappa B is like the commander that says, okay, hold back, hold back, bring back in. It's like it becomes the feedback loop so that the system does not cause destruction of itself when it tries to destroy the invader. Okay.
John Gildea (:Very good analogy because that system being on is, is high in virtually every chronic disease.
Martin Katz: Okay. And what's interesting, you know, people may go, Oh, what else can this thing do? And that's what makes selling this product so hard because it does seem like it's snake oil. But again, this is where that word pleiotropic comes in. I think I've used it before. It's one of my favorite words. Try use it at least once a day where NRF-2 is this molecule that goes down to the DNA and it turns on 200 genes. And it's not just any genes, it's antioxidant response elements. It's turning on him. Oxygenase it's turning on, um, these thioredoxins these molecules that help to regulate these things. So it's, it's got a lot of very positive effects because of where NRF-2 binds. It has this massively very good response. Outside of that initial response,
Jeffrey Smith:Well you've challenged us to all to use the word pleiotropic every day, but in this case pleiotropic we're talking about one compound: sulforaphane and 200 different genes have been identified as waking up, coming to attention and deploying proteins that will be helpful for the health of the system, the defense against invaders and the, the stabilization of the body is this is my, am I getting this correct? That's awesome. Yeah. And you're calling that as pleiotropic. Yeah.
Martin Katz :Right. So pleiotropic is when one molecule has a large, uh, goes down to the DNA and has a large effect on that DNA.
Jeffrey Smith :A Renaissance molecule.
Martin Katz :Yeah. It's, it's really remarkable to me that more people don't know about sulforaphane. Cause again, you look at the literature and there's thousands and thousands of studies on this molecule and so many different disease processes. So I really appreciate you helping us get the word out because I think it's a molecule we should all be very, very familiar with. And certainly a molecule, we should have in our tool box.
Jeffrey Smith :I want to say. And I want to get to John, you're, I cut you off before, cause I knew we were going to go down deep into the biochemistry that relates to the coronavirus. And I promised everyone we would do that. But let's finish up on BrocElite and if there's anything else you want to say about BrocElite, then this would be the time. And I'm going to add that broccoli sprouts are supposed to have high levels of, sulforaphane and that sometimes you get the seeds and test them and they don't have any. And so you actually have identified sources. And just because something's organic doesn't mean it has it either. Um, some organics that you've tested don't have it. So it's really more, uh, the species or the, or the subtypes of these seeds that will determine whether there's sulforaphane.
Jeffrey Smith: So, and I'm really so glad that you actually test. So it's not just that, it's like, Oh, it's a broccoli seed. It's a broccoli sprout. It must have it. So I'm, I'm grateful. But it's also a little bit disturbing that we can't necessarily rely on broccoli sprouts for our sulforaphane. And now we know we can't just pick up something that says helps boost itself sulforaphane in the body because that's the precursor. And you told me at one point that the precursor only converts it between five and 30% and it all depends on the health of the gut bacteria, which of course is under stress and attack from glyphosate and other things as well is. So I, that's sort of one way that I come into what BrocElite is, is it's actually, since sulforaphane is so unstable, normally you just, you cannot hold on to it.
Jeffrey Smith : It becomes vapor where it disappears, except you've been able to stabilize it. You've been able to put the sandbags and not let it go and hold it down so that it actually gets delivered to the cell. And in one case when you found how much was getting delivered to the cell, it was what, two and a half times that which was I'll deliver to the cell from the stabilized, sulforaphane that Johns Hopkins used and all of its research, so it's actually possibly two and a half times more effective than the ones that have been researched that you can find those thousands of research studies. These are some of the things that got me excited about your brilliant work, John. It's stabilizing this and also I should say that you're a, your reason for doing this because you both knew someone who needed it because they had a serious health condition and you decided, well there was nothing out there for her, but you created something and, and I'm, and it was like I love talking to people who invent things based on that level of compassion and inventiveness. Is there anything else you want to share about BrocElite or sulforaphane before we dive into the biochemistry of the coronavirus and all that stuff that we were talking about before?
John Gildea :Yeah, I think the, I think a good, a good way to introduce, the pleiotropy, that maybe some people would have an idea about is, a particular, um, disease state that I think most people thought there would never be a single molecule that can budge and that's autism. And so I think anybody that has studied that for a long period of time realizes so many things are, are going afoul. And there are so many factors that are involved in that. Um, the fact that there was a Hopkins study on older autistic kids that are even thought to be, um, more recalcitrant, they're, they're less able to be budged from their disease state. Um, that sulforaphane was able to move the needle in many measures of autism. And that's, I think, one of the best examples of how a single molecule can affect many systems simultaneously. And I think that's kind of one of the shining, gold star moments for sulforaphane.
Jeffrey Smith :Yeah. I do know that in the autism community, which is generally parents trying to protect them and their children. Sulforaphane is very popular because the research is so dramatic and I'm sure that the BrocElite information is getting circulated, that regulations are being able to produce something that may have some impact there. Um, but that is, it is interesting. It's that Renaissance molecule doing so much, having the capacity or from a sports figure, the utility infielder, the one that can, can do all the positions.
John Gildea :It is, I was just going to say, and then the address that you brought up about, um, the amount of the precursor molecule in the many different seeds. I mean we're pretty disturbed by that, that there is a large, um, number of, of the seeds that are out there that have almost none, of the precursor molecule. And so say you, you read in the literature that you wanted to, grow your broccoli sprouts or a friend. And we did that for a long time. Um, and it didn't seem to work. Now we, you know, it wasn't matching the expectations from the study. Well, Johns Hopkins measures every batch of sulforaphane that they make. So they know exactly how much is going to in each person. Well, so we're trying to match that. We met, we measure the amount of sulforaphane from every batch and in order to try and improve that, we're always trying to improve it. We're looking for seeds that have a lot of the precursor molecules so that we can, we can make a better product.
John Gildea: And we were really surprised how, how many of them don't have any. And, so there's, if you, if you've tried, um, broccoli sprouts and not got the effect that, you think you should have gotten. We would suggest we actually sell our seeds. Um, if people want to do it in the cheapest way possible is to, to buy our seed sprouting kit where we have tested the seeds and their ability to make sulforaphane. So I think that's something that I was, we're really excited about getting out to the masses.
Martin Katz : Well, yeah, I mean, I'm on the clinical friends and you know. Honestly, not everybody can afford a lot of supplements. And some can't even afford one. So if you can afford hopefully some seed, which is a loan, a more affordable, uh, you want to see, that's actually gonna work for you. And our seeds don't actually high with their high in is actually glucoraphanin, which is the precursor molecule. And one thing I would like to say about that is marketers have been very, very intelligent and that glucoraphanin which is in the seed, which we extract the extract out of the cell, combining the other thing that's in the sprout called myrosinase You need both of those things that glucoraphanin and the myrosinase to create the sulforaphane. Mmm. If you, the market is called glucoraphanin "sulforaphane glucosinolate". Those are not the same things even though it's named sulforaphane. Sulforaphane glucosinolate is just glucoraphanin, the precursor molecule. So be very careful with that. You still need the myrosinase with that sulforaphane glucosinolate to make the sulforaphane. And you know, some, some, uh, supplements are coming with any myrosinase. So then you're relying on the gut microbiome, which can work. But if it's an unhealthy gut microbiome, likely you're not going to work.
So if you have the sprouts, they have the myrosinase and they have the other, do they
Jeffrey Smith : produce the sulforaphane in the sprouts or just the precursors so that your gut bacteria can convert itself?
Martin Katz :That's a great question. So when you chew the sprout, as long as it has the glucoraphanin, again, when you, when you do the research, like read
during, we know we have that glucoraphanin in the sprout. Oh, in the seed, uh, when you chew that, uh, leaf you're releasing, you're releasing glucoraphanin in the cell wall, you have the myrosinase this protein and then creates the self. You're a fan. If you, as long as you have them both, which you're doing the sprout and you can combine it, you know, uh, Rhonda Patrick talks a lot about this. You can combine it with radishes. You can combine it with mustard seed, which is very high in myrosinase to increase that amount or sulforaphane.
But again, we bypassed all that and made this molecule stabilize sulforaphane, which again is lipophilic, which means it will cross the membrane and get into the cell very quickly. It's water soluble so it can get into all parts of your body to have an effect. And again, you have NRF-2, not only in the liver, but in every cell. And so that becomes very important.
Well, so now, you know, chew your food. Maybe the mustard sprout will also work. Maybe one mustard sprout for every a hundred could add them, whatever. Or radishes, radishes, the ratio that's used in a lot of papers. All right, so one and a hundred in terms of myrosinase, and it's actually, so the actual sprouts don't have the sulforaphane, but they have the components that combined and that can be created in your system.
Jeffrey Smith:And do they do need the gut bacteria to create the combination for that?
John Gildea : Its additive I think. In the case of glucoraphanin getting released, I think when people eat, ate the broccoli sprouts, there still will be big differences between people. Um, but more has made just eating the precursor. Gotcha. Okay. Sprout is going to be better than just the precursor.
Jeffrey Smith :All right, so I'm so glad that you guys are selling the high uh, high quality broccoli sprouts because I know it's a pinch for me to be able to talk so excitedly about something knowing that some people listening can't afford it and it's been a pinch for me. You know, whenever I started doing the healing from GMOs and Roundup work that I know some people can't afford it, but I, and this is a work around it takes, it takes a little work to create the sprouts, but now you have food. Now you have a way to get more food when you're sheltering in place and you don't have to go out to the store cause it expands and multiplies when you add the water to the seed. All right, now we have finished our discussion on BrocElite and stabilized sulforaphane.
Martin Katz: So for a fair, let me just say real quick, anybody can sprout. Okay. I was successful. Pretty much anybody. It is pungent and it's an acquired taste, but it's good.
Jeffrey Smith: How long, how long does it take to convert the seeds? Four days. And you have a sprouting. Good. All right. And sprouts have a very high nutrient level because for some reason in that early stage, they're just jam packed with goodies that doesn't, it's not found in the seed alone and it's not found later on. It's like there's a spike and all these good things during the sprout phase. And that's when a lot of people who know sprouting will, will get their nutrition. Okay. Thank you. Let's go to the next, let's dive into the coronavirus thing because there's some people who are into the biochemical, the biochemistry of it, and they want to understand what you, what I cut you off starting to say John. Uh, um, so let, let's go into the world of what it is, is ACE-, um, these, these things, which I don't remember all the, you know, there's all these things and I will, I will make sure that it gets translated into something that I can understand and share with others. Go ahead.
John Gildea : Yes. So, um, I'm not sure how many people know about the, the general characteristics of hypertension, but one of the driving factors for it is the angiotensin system. So it's an aging dependent disease. So it means that as you, as you get older, the you get hypertension more often and this angiotensin system is, is more prominent. And so with this coronavirus, one of the things that came out from it was people with high blood pressure and people that were older. And so a component of that is likely this angiotensin system. And probably one of the things that I don't think has gotten out there is that the receptor, the ACE2 opposes the angiotensin system. So the bottom line there is that when this angiotensin system is high, the one of the components of that system, um, is not able to block and inhibit ACE2. The receptor for coronavirus. So when you have hypertension, this ACE2 is free to be a receptor for the coronavirus.
Jeffrey Smith : So in other words, if you have high blood pressure, it's like all of a sudden the there, there's the ACE2 is like I'm free. You can, you can attach to me, you can, you can start working me. And this is very serious. So, so hypertensive patients are more vulnerable and this is either the reason or a contributing reason because the ACE2 was unprotected as a result.
John Gildea : Okay. Right. And an interesting angle that's come out relatively recently, and I know the American Heart Association has put out a statement, um, is that, is that the inhibitors of the angiotensin system that blocks that system, they were worried that it was going to make it worse because one of the, one of the responses to those medications is that ACE2 goes up, but it turns out by the mechanism that it works is that it's actually the activity of the system that is the important aspects. So the ARB is that ACE inhibitors, all the, all the things that are used to lower blood pressure, um, aren't making it worse. That's the statement that, people put out, and it is likely is, um, protective.
Jeffrey Smith :Oh, so what you're saying is the, they did, we're concerned that lowering blood pressure was going to screw up the system because the amount of ACE2 would go up, but that's not the critical matter, it's the process of ACE2 that causes the issue with the virus. And so actually lowering blood pressure is a good strategy after all to protect the ACE2 from that process.
John Gildea (:Absolutely. Okay. And then the ACE2itself is an anti inflammatory. So, um, that's also a mechanism that the coronavirus is using is that the coronavirus is binding to the ACE2 receptor and inactivating it. So that part of the inflammation that's going on is likely through activation of the angiotensin system.
Jeffrey Smith: So, so normally the ACE2 would be antiinflammatory and with the coronavirus attached to it, then inflammation can occur. And part of that inflammation is through the angiotensin system. And that's like pushing it up cause they work in, they work back and forth. Okay. I'm just staying up with you making sure I'm with you. Okay.
John Gildea: Yeah. And interestingly, there's a number of papers showing that sulforaphane lowers blood pressure, so it's not, a stretch to say that, that it can potentially be protective in this area. And this one mechanism.
Jeffrey Smith :universal, and I didn't know that. Sulforaphane was gonna come to the rescue here too. I would also say meditation and happiness and not being, not being in the fight or flight mode all the time. So separating fear from alertness. A lot of people think they have to be fearful in order to be alert, but that's not true. You can be alert and awake, but happy and joyful and not fearful so that hypertension isn't, isn't also exacerbated by the mood. And thank you.
Martin Katz:Yes. Let me say with that, Jeffrey, that everybody's super fearful of what's going on in super worried and they're sitting around watching the news. That's not what our approach here is. Health is not a passive thing. You can't wait for it. You actively need to be involved in meditating, going for a walk, getting out in nature. As long as there's six feet of separation. Of course. Hydrating. Eating the right foods, all the nutrients. Stress is an amazing, as an amazingly poor effect on the body.
Certainly from a hypertensive standpoint. There's a great, um, a book out there called "Why Zebras Don't get Ulcers". And if you want a physiologic tour of what stress can do to the human body, specifically hypertension, the gut, you name it, the immune system or it's stress is not, um, not good for you. So certainly don't be sitting around, take some control, be actively involved in your health and do the right things by you.
Jeffrey Smith: Thank you so much. That was beautiful. Are we going to wrap it up there? Is there any other piece of information that you're going to feel like, Oh, I should have mentioned that and I, and you're going to kick yourselves
John Gildea : Well, the only thing I was going to add was just because I'm in, in this, field of, you know, where the [inaudible] receptors are expressed. I probably have a little bit insight there is that the ACEu gene is expressed in what's called the type two alveoli in the long. And so that's the cell that's being infected. Uh, it's also expressed in proximal tubule of the kidney and they're are finding kidney damage with this coronavirus it's found in the small intestine and there's a lot of, um, I've gut issues with this virus and there's some in the liver as well. So there is ACE2 in the liver. And so those four spots, they're actually seeing the, um, the effects of the virus in people that have it.
Jeffrey Smith : So ACE2 is a big player in the way that it functions. It does certain, um, racist human rights racists have more ACE2 than others. Is there a pro, a different port or profile for people who may also be more receptive or not receptive but more susceptible to?
John Gildea: I actually had read that there are, um, races that have more ACE2 um, the male, the male female ratio that has come up a number of times. I think that's most likely that serine protease that we talked about, um, that is driven by the androgens. Um, that's TMPRSS2, intuitive long sounding thing that everyone's been about. So that processing enzyme is higher in males and maybe, um, why there's some people that think that it's affecting males more often than females.
Jeffrey Smith: Yeah. I just heard that on a, on a press conference that the male infection rate is quite a bit higher and the female, so now we have a plausible reason why that may be the case.
John Gildea: Right. All right. And interesting. That's, that's part of the reason why, um, there's a number of papers showing that prostate cancer is actually a translocation of this TMPRSS2, with an oncogene. And so it's using the, it's using the promoter of this, the dependent promoter to drive another oncogene. And so sulforaphane is known to, to turn that off.
Jeffrey Smith: So in other words, when we talk about a promoter and an oncogene, an oncogene is something that promotes cancer and it promoter turns on a gene. And so the promoter, which turns on one gene, which is this long sounding, uh, alphabet soup that actually for some reason it's now turning on the wrong thing, the, the dang cancer cell, which is linked to prostate cancer. And sulforaphane does what, does it stop the promoter or does it stop this? The ability of the promoter to work on the oncogene and the other cancer for what gene do you know?
John Gildea: Yeah, there's a, um, a promoter dependent component. And it's also what Martin was talking about earlier. The proteostasis it makes the, the gene, um, turn over more quickly. It's proteolytically degraded faster. There is a better balance.
Jeffrey Smith : Okay, thank you. I was like, that's like the end of the talking right now. I just started to glaze over. There's too many words I think I, I held up though. I held up for most of this like, Oh, I don't think I want to go there.
Martin Katz: Yeah. The other, the only other stable so it's better. Okay. The uh, exactly. The others, the only other stabilization of, sulforaphane. They do more chemical processes in France. It's called Prosapn and they rent more drugs because of its effect on the prostate. So
Jeffrey Smith: Yeah, I knew there was a French version but I didn't understand the difference. Thank you. All right, thank you gentlemen. I'm not going to bother
summarizing it all. I'm just going to say that the high quality broccoli sprouts, broccoli, both have some components that can help flex the muscles of the body protected against invasion. We can't say anything specific about its role with coronavirus clearly, but we can understand the science and make decisions based on what we know. And thank you for doing the research and thank you, John, for creating this stabilized sulforaphane, so I always pronounce it wrong, sulforaphane and Martin for applying it in a clinical setting and bring you back to the wisdom of what's practical and what's working. And we're, we're, we've arranged for a discount for the BrocElite. Um, and part of your purchase supports our work and getting the information out. So stay healthy, everyone, safe eating, eat organic, don't get stressed. A model of optimism for your friends and help create the organ of our community to work and function together by being that connection and being that person that you'd want others to be. So we can turn this period of time as an opportunity. So we end up with healthier individuals and a healthier community. What an opportunity. We have to do that. Thank you gentlemen.