Listen to the Podcast:
In this special podcast Jeffrey is interviewed by Greg Peterson of the Urban Farm Podcast. Jeffrey lays out the carefully strategic plan called Protect Nature Now that is the direct solution to the current existential threat from GMOs.
For more info and ways you can get involved to help with this important planet-wide threat that some scientists are saying is more important than climate change, join us at https://protectnaturenow.com/
Notes for this week's Podcast
This week's Transcript
Speaker 2: (00:07)
Or podcast. We have someone who is raising public awareness about gene editing. We're talking with Jeffrey Smith about genetically modified microbes. Jeffrey is a best-selling author, award-winning filmmaker and celebrated public speaker. He has influenced the behavior and health of millions of people worldwide through his books like seeds of deception and genetic roulette and his podcast live healthy be well. Jeffrey is the founding executive director of the Institute for responsible technology, which has started a global education campaign called protect nature. Now with his first documentary titled don't let the gene out of the bottle. That's a fun title. Welcome to the show today. Jeffrey, are you ready to rock?
Speaker 3: (00:53)
Absolutely. Greg. Awesome.
Speaker 2: (00:55)
So I shared a bit about you. Can you fill in the blanks for us and share more about the path you took to get where
Speaker 3: (01:01)
You're at today over the last six decades
Speaker 2: (01:03)
Now over the last six decades? Exactly.
Speaker 3: (01:05)
That's a long story. Um, I'll tell you what, let's just wrap up a 25 year history and a pivot point to a new future. Right? 25 years ago, I went to a lecture on genetic engineering and went, Oh my God, this is serious. And hardly anyone knows about it. They were about to release genetically engineered, soy and corn in the state that I was living in an Iowa and almost no one in the United States knew about it, but the person giving the lecture was a genetic engineer. And he said, the process itself creates unpredicted side effects. There's no Monsanto could actually predict what it's doing to the food supply or even worse, what it's doing to the gene pool, which could never be cleaned up because once you release a GMO, it becomes part of the genetic, the corrupted gene sequence of the genome of the gene pool.
Speaker 3: (01:58)
And the only thing that lasts longer than a self-propagating genetic pollution is extinction. So I decided, okay, I better, I better get involved here and you have a little bit of time, and that was 25 years ago. So the, you mentioned that in my introduction that I'm focused on gene, gene edited microbes, and most people have no idea when they think of me. That that's my focus right now, because I was better known and better known for pioneering the behavior change messaging that alerted the world about the health dangers of GMOs. When I started looking at what was going on with GMOs, I realized, you know, all of the other nonprofits and NGOs and speakers were focusing on the environmental impact or the concentration of ownership by a few corporations or the, the inability, the problems with patenting life. The entire entire coverage of the health dangers of GMOs was usually three and occasionally four.
Speaker 3: (03:01)
And they were basically leaving that to be argued in the halls of science. And to me, that was a grave mistake because the health dangers was in fact, the way to reach the consumers and that when you reach enough consumers in a critical mass, you can end up convincing them to avoid the GMOs, which puts more money in the hands of the companies that put non-GMO on their products, which drives everyone else to get rid of GMOs, to put non GM on their product. So that was our plan and it's been a success. So we had those two books. We had four documentaries included secret ingredients. The most recent long form documentary traveled to 45 countries spoke, um, helped build a movement around the health dangers. And now it last survey, global survey, tons of people. We just cover that 48% of the world's population believes that most foods are unsafe 51% of United States.
Speaker 3: (04:02)
So we consider that a huge victory. And that's now creating the outcome that we planned, which is the, the divestment of GMOs from food companies so that they maintain market share. But along comes a new version of GMOs gene editing. Now in the last 25 years, there's been less than a dozen commercialized food crops. Gene editing is so cheap and easy next 25 years, if we don't stop, or there could be tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of GMOs released, which could replace nature permanently. So all future generations would not, as we did inherit the products of the billions of years of evolution, but instead they would inherit the products of laboratory technologies, which number one most common result of which is surprise side effects. So gene editing is so cheap. You can do it, get a, do it yourself kit on Amazon for $169.
Speaker 3: (05:02)
Wow. The companies like bear, they can create massive arrays of robots being driven by artificial intelligence to create massive numbers of GMOs. And we're talking about the situation where we have arrived at inevitable time in human history where mankind can redirect the streams of evolution for all time. And yet we don't have the understanding of what that could mean. So we have pivoted instead of focusing primarily and not exclusively, but primarily of the health dangers of GMOs for consumer choice, we are now starting a new global movement to lock down the release of gene edited organisms, but specifically, and most importantly at this time, micro organisms, including viruses, microbes, and viruses, so that, so basically protect the global microbiome. And as we'll see, as in our, in our discussion, we may have a more serious moral alarm that goes off. When we think about the Chinese scientists that gene edited human children that were born, but was just last year, right?
Speaker 3: (06:11)
Yeah, it was a year ago, the year before that, but the, the, the actual dangers to human health and the environment are far greater by genetically engineering, the little guys and the pandemic gives a perfect example of what could happen with a genetically engineered pandemic, potentially pandemic pathogen. I mean, there's one that was, for example, H five N one virus has up to 24 times more deadly than the COVID 19 virus, but it hardly ever gets onto humans. You have to be around birds a lot. So what did engineers do? They created an airborne version and I mean, that's just like, are you serious? Oh, no, no, it's in a highly secured lab, but did you realize that there's been over a thousand releases from secure labs? So why are we, that's just one example of why the microbiome is so important to not mess around with.
Speaker 2: (07:06)
So the really the big problem, and I've seen this for years, myself is not the genetic genetically modified work itself. Although there's probably issues with that. It's how it gets out. And when we're talking, when we're talking about corn, um, bill, McDorman a longtime friend of mine and seed guy here in the country, um, he doesn't believe that there's anything there, that there is organic corn any longer.
Speaker 3: (07:37)
Well, I can tell you having worked at a GMO detection laboratory 20 years ago, and being aware of certain strains that are hard to cross-pollinate that borrowed genetics from popcorn, which doesn't easily cross-pollinate, you can get clean core, but most of it has a small presence of genetic contamination from GMO corn, even at great distances. I mean, pollen travels, for some reason, we have no idea. I mean, there was a, I just did a report of cotton in wild cotton plants in Mexico that were contaminated by genetically engineered cotton. That was about 2000 kilometers away, 1200 miles. Wow. So we don't have, we don't have it locked down. And the thing is with, with microbes, it doesn't, I mean, microbes travel around the world. We saw what happened with the COVID-19 virus around the world quickly, and it keeps moving, keeps moving. Bacteria can do the same thing.
Speaker 3: (08:37)
There was a secret study reported by whistleblowers at the EPA to, uh, Elaine Ingam a former professor of Oregon state university. She was told, and she told me, and it's in the film, don't let the gene out of the bottle, um, which you can see a protect nature now.com when it becomes, you can see the trailer now, um, that the EPA released genetically engineered bacteria in a test site in Louisiana to see how far it would spread well. And one 11 miles later, 11 miles in one generation and 11 miles in another year. And eventually they just stopped funding the experiment. When not, I guess it gets around, but some individuals within the EPA decided to continue gathering samples and testing. And it got to the point where they found it everywhere on the planet. So the bacteria just like we know the COVID-19 virus traveled all over the world.
Speaker 3: (09:30)
Now we know that bacteria genetically engineered can travel all over the world. So now bacteria and the microbiome is in every cubic inch of the earth. It's in the atmosphere they all have in our gut. And what, what are the microbiome do? It exchanges genetic information. And what does it do? It upholds health more than 80% of the human chronic diseases are driven by, uh, ecosystem dysfunction in our human gut microbiome and overall microbiome. The microbiome is the foundation for health. For ecosystems. You can have ecosystem collapsed by messing with the microbiome and what we're doing. And we introduced genetically engineered microbes is introducing unknown elements that have not been part of the millions of years of evolution co-evolution. And we could end up causing disease, death, and ecosystem collapse by the things that we do now that are well intentioned. And we have some specific near miss examples in the film.
Speaker 2: (10:33)
Wow. So just real quickly, I want to go back to the seeds and then we'll come back here. So on a scale, the magnitude at which pollen from plants travel is one level. This magnitude of biological microbiome stuff is exponentially greater,
Speaker 3: (10:59)
Not only exponentially greater in terms of travel, but it's also in terms of influence because bacteria swap genetic elements. So, you know, it'll pull like they're trading cards. It's like, okay, this will help me adapt to this ecosystem. Oh, you'll have that. That'll help me survive. Oh, I can create a, a new version of myself over here and end up in this ecosystem. So that's part of the way the microbiome works is the swapping. Second, they go through generations very, very quickly, third genetic engineering, whether in corn or in microbes, the genetic constructs can change over time and can mutate over time. So what you've done, a safety assessment on Tuesday may be different like the first day, especially in the micro world. So you end up with mutations, adoptions and, and changes that you can never predict. And even the process of genetic engineering can cause hundreds of thousands of mutations of the DNA, which they don't account for don't even evaluate in most cases.
Speaker 3: (11:58)
So when you change the microbiome, you're now effecting wherever that would get to and interact with new ecosystems. And some of those ecosystems are within our pets or within fish or within plants are within humans are in the atmosphere or on our skin. We have a microbiome on our skin, in our mouth, in our nose. And so if you introduce a genetically engineered bacterium for soil remediation that can fix nitrogen or do something, and maybe you produce some antibacterial elements so that it becomes dominant in the soil because you want to call it the other stuff. And maybe you produce something that allows it to survive longer because you want to inoculate the soil. Now that gets into the human gut microbiome. And all of a sudden you have something that is killing off other elements, destroying the biodiversity, causing a survival of itself. Maybe it swaps that gene with a pathogens causing over survival of the pathogen.
Speaker 3: (12:58)
You have no idea what its impact is on autism, diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease, overweight, fatigue, schizophrenia, all of these things are linked to the microbiome. And so we're releasing it in a field saying, Oh, it's designed for a corn field. And it ends up in the atmosphere, in our gut, in China, everywhere in the world with 10,000 different ecosystems. And that's just a, I mean, it's many more than that because it's also internal ecosystems in potential havoc and creating potential devastation. And we can go through it a couple of examples of what that might look like for all right. So the reason why Elaine Ingham was told by the whistleblower at the EPA, because she had spoken at the UN and whatnot about a particular experiment that she was aware of because her graduate student that she was who she was advising, did an experiment on genetically engineered bacteria.
Speaker 3: (13:58)
And the bacteria was designed by other scientists to help farmers will intention. I have to make this clear. The scientists are not the enemy. They're, well-intentioned, it's the inability to understand the consequences of these releases, which is so dangerous play. It's like handing, handing that atomic bomb to a child said, Oh, don't press that button. Um, so these scientists took Klebsiella plantilla, which is on the root structures of all the plants in the world. And it helps break down matter. And they said, okay, let's break down the plant. Matter into alcohol. Let's put a new gene in so that it turns plant matter into alcohol. Then instead of burning the crop residues on fields, farmers can rake it up, put it in big barrels and the bacteria open the spigot two weeks later and run their tractors with the alcohol produced on their field. And, and it sounds like a great idea, right?
Speaker 3: (14:57)
They can sell the bed, they could sell the alcohol off the farm. It's an extra income. They even have built in a fertilizer because there's nutrient rich sludge at the bottom of the barrel. So this was going to be released to see how far it's spread. And then once they pass that, then it was going to be sent to farmers around the world. It had already passed all the tests required by the EPA, but the graduate student needed to get something, some research done for his PhD. So he asked and got permission from the scientists to use their bacteria for his own thing. And it was not required. It was not a safety assessment. It was just some observation he wanted to do. So we took the nutrient rich sludge and mixed it with soil and planted wheat seeds, and then took controls and planted weed seeds there.
Speaker 3: (15:44)
And one day on a Saturday morning, he shows up at his lab and thinks, Oh my God, I must have done something wrong because all of the wheat seeds that were starting to grow in the trays that had mixed the nutrient rich sludge with, Oh my gosh were dead. They had actually turned to slime. He was just slime on the top of the, of the soil. Wow. He thought he did something wrong, but actually the end of the nutrient rich sludge was the still functioning Klebsiella plan, tickle of bacteria, turning plant matter into alcohol. So he realized that his tray of soil was infertile. It could not support terrestrial plants because it would turn the roots. And then the crops into large. Now this was two weeks before the scientists were going to release this outdoors to see how far it could travel. Now we know how bacteria can travel, right? So I asked Elaine Ingram and you got to watch this in the film. What is the natural consequence? So what would be the impact of releasing this into the environment? What could happen? And she said, well, the naturally, let me, let me, let me, let me make it clear. It could end terrestrial life.
Speaker 2: (17:12)
Holy shirt, Batman.
Speaker 3: (17:15)
Yeah. And she, she was like very clear to me. Oh, no, it wouldn't, it wouldn't have that same effect in agriculture. We could still grow kelp. And I'm like, Oh, good.
Speaker 2: (17:24)
Right? Yeah. Like we can live off of kelp. So when you said that, I kind of knew what was coming, but when you said that I got chills all the way down, my body it's like that, that is an extinction level event that we were taking away from.
Speaker 3: (17:40)
It is a cataclysm. And the thing is, it was two weeks away. And I mean, you got to watch this film. Don't let the gene out of the bottle. Cause that's just one of the examples. The other one is the age five and one which we talked about. Another one is there's bacteria in the atmosphere that makes rain snow, sleet. It helps pull together the moisture it'll cause it causes freezing it at higher temperatures that would normally happen. And you know, some well-intentioned scientists wanted to protect strawberries and potatoes from early frost. And if they had released their, in this case, the name was [inaudible]. If they release that into the environment and if they give it had out survived and displaced, its natural counterpart, the pseudomonas serene guy in the atmosphere above California, where I live actually condenses the moist air causing rainfall in California, which we need.
Speaker 3: (18:42)
Imagine if that impotent, GMO variety had displaced the natural one, then all of that moisture would maybe going somewhere else until and be condensing elsewhere. Unless of course that place also has pseudomonas Seringa that's impotent. So we could talk about changing weather patterns. We can talk about a devastating, uh, H five N one or any matter of pathogen. We could talk about ending terrestrial plant life. We could talk about incorporating disease, creating microbes in our gut bacteria. Or we can even talk more abstractly about minor adjustments in human gut bacteria. I was talking to Karen Christian, one of the world's experts at the microbiome, the human microbiome. He talks about how certain organisms in our gut cause us to crave sweets, certain organisms in our gut cause us caused us to have to be social, to reach it, to connect with other people so they can swap microbiome materials and get the oxytocin, which helps promote, uh, the organisms development that we know that the gut bacteria can determine whether a fat or skinny, whether we're small, whether we're happy or sad.
Speaker 3: (19:58)
Um, teacher Klinghardt described how the microbiome and the brain creates intelligence. And if you and, and Kiran went even further to say that we only have 22,000 genes in our genome, less than an earth work, but we have 3.5 million genetic elements from the microbes in us, from the microbiome. And that's what we use. Most of our metabolic functions are not done through our genetic structure. They're they're dictated there, they're delegated to the microbiome. So he was talking about, we have what, you know, most disease in humans comes from leaky gut, according to a Harvard researcher and that the, the degradation of the gut lining, we have no genes in our body to, to ID, identify that and to organize the healing of it. It's all the microbiome. Well there's microbiomes that there's bacteria that go in there that do quorum, sensing that figure out what the current population is, what it needs.
Speaker 3: (20:58)
It can send out a consent signals to the body saying, you need to bring in a new cell. Cause there's one that's damaged along the gut lining. You need to bring in new elements to cause gaps to close so that we can correct leaky gut. He said, if he had 10,000 scientists and all the money he needed, he could not design elements to do what the existing microbes in our body are already pre-wired to do in their millions of years of evolution. Now we take genetically engineered microbes designed for something by a narrow narrow viewing blinder, wearing scientists, focused on protecting strawberries or giving an advantage to farmers or changing the probiotics of the soil. We give them the tools that they can for $2,000, you can set up a very flexible CRISPR gene editing kit and start pumping out different organisms. And maybe you flush them down the toilet if you don't like them and you just have, you just released it for all time and create changes in the microbiome that will go on forever.
Speaker 3: (22:01)
And that will change the nature of ecosystems that you hadn't even envisioned. And it may be that it's not a cataclysmic effect event. It may be that it just turns up the, uh, the susceptibility to cancer or turns down the happiness or increases the ability for obesity. And we may never know that it was a release in Louisiana, possibly the one that was released by the EPA for their tests that is causing changes in human behavior, in human health and ecosystem health. So having said that we are now starting a new global movement to protect the global microbiome, our internal microbiome, to stop the genetic engineering enhancement of potentially pandemic pathogens, to secure facilities that use or create microbes to assign strict liability for release. And we want it not just in the United States, but everywhere in the planet, because that's the scale of this.
Speaker 3: (23:07)
So that is what I'm doing with my summer vacation that is done. And that's why after 25 years of a very successful campaign building movement building on consumer choice. Now we have to implement strict regulations, laws, policies, and do massive education because laws themselves are not stable. Governments are not stable. I was flown to Poland by the government, gave a press conference with the minister of environment praising their non-GMO position later. A new government was elected. That was pro GMO. I lobbied ministers and ministries in Thailand. They said, okay, no GMOs and field trials. I may an impact on that. But 10 days later it was a new government and they allowed GMOs in field trials. So if we just try and solve it on the level of government, we are risking all living beings and all future generation and something, which we cannot rely on. We need, we need everyone in the world to know that we have come to this time. What do we need to be stewards of all living beings and all future generations and most urgently and importantly, using the pandemic as a wake up call, most urgently, the microbes and viruses, which are so fundamental to life on this planet.
Speaker 2: (24:39)
It's really the bottom up model. Yeah. You know, community level, microbiome level, we're working that direction. I've not found that, um, you know, the top-down governmental regulations, uh, work all that well.
Speaker 3: (24:55)
Well, in this case, we have to do both. Yeah, I agree. We need, we want cities and counties to ban it. We want States to ban it, but we want governments, but also international treaties. We want world health organization, world trade organization, UN we basically, here's the thing, everyone almost not everyone, but a lot of people in the world know about climate change. Whether they believe it or not, they know about it. There's only a handful of people that appreciate this existential threat. Now it is easier to understand it is easier to understand than climate change and it isn't, and all it involves is an understanding of mathematics. You release one GMO, that's a potential biological time bomb because it can change its character or its impact depending on conditions that it may acquire later in its life or in areas that you did not anticipate. So that's, uh, that's one now multiply it by 10,000 or a hundred thousand or a million GMOs introduced and you realize, Oh my God, we have now destabilized ecosystems that have been built over millions of years. Right. So it's just, it's, it's simple to understand. And so we that's our advantage. And so we need to everyone to know that.
Speaker 2: (26:15)
And th so you've spoken to the surprise side effects and exponential side effects. And I just want to touch a little bit on that because this can just like COVID did inside of 90 days or 120 days spread through most of the world. The same thing could happen here.
Speaker 3: (26:35)
Oh yeah. Yeah. The thing is, what's interesting about the side effects of genetic engineering. Let's just call it three classes. The first is the process of genetic engineering creates unpredictable changes in the organism. Hundreds of thousands of mutations in the genome changes in the RNA, changes in the protein, changes in the metabolites, changes in its structure and function second, even if it were perfect, which it's not. I remember the most common result of genetic engineering is surprise side effects, but even if it was, as they described, simply removing one gene, putting a page into a new page in the book, which is totally simplistic and wrong that we don't understand because genes function as networks, as families, as systems that you increase. One it's like, um, there was, they fed RNA, a genetic, um, regulation element to honey bee larva thinking would have no impact a single meal.
Speaker 3: (27:45)
It was supposed to have zero impact. It changed the function of over 1400 genes, 10% of the genome of the honeybee. So they had no idea. They expected it to do nothing. And it, it was basically a capture of the genome. So even if it's exactly what you want, it may produce things you didn't intend in the organism. And the third level is in the environment. So maybe in your hundreds or thousands of mutations, you have silenced a gene that you thought was unneeded and worthless, but it turns out in the case of hot weather, a particular disease, the presence of a particular ally or predator, then it's supposed to kick up, but let's say it doesn't kick on, or let's say it kicks on double or triple. Somehow. You've created changes that you have no idea how to predict, because you can't take that organism into all of its potential, future ecosystems and relationships and conditions and temperatures and diseases.
Speaker 3: (28:48)
And so we have the unpredicted side effects from the process. We have the unpredicted side effects from moving and changing DNA. And we have the unpredicted side effects from the ecosystem. And now hand the ability to change the DNA to anyone with $169 to get a do it yourself, kit and Amazon. And that may have be a very limited in terms of, okay, you can do these five things with this strain, but for 2000 bucks, you now have a flexible lab where you can order the, the genetic constructs for the price of dinner to create a new organism. That's never been part of, of nature, and you could release it and it may die, but it may not.
Speaker 4: (29:31)
Yeah, well, that's a powerful statement. And so we've, we've talked for almost 30 now about the problem. What can we do about it? And let's talk about what we can do about it and protect nature. Now, what are you up to over there?
Speaker 3: (29:50)
Start with protect nature now, dot hub.com, protect nature now.com everyone who's like eyebrows are up. Eyes are wide. You know, like those memories commercials, the wind is like the blowing,
Speaker 4: (30:02)
The hair, everyone, everyone
Speaker 3: (30:05)
Who's in that position now, or even mildly interested in, you know, if you breathe, eat, or exist in nature, then you qualify. Um, I would say go to protect nature now and immediately share your email with us. So we can let you know about a zillion things that we would love to have the world do, but we can't reach the world. We just reached you. So be a stand in for the thousand of your closest personal friends. And we may have you click a, a message that you can customize or keep as is to go to all of your elected officials, to go to media, to go to Facebook and Twitter and whatnot. We may have a petition that we're going to be needing signed to go to the world health organization or Congress or the president. We may have a video that we need to share to get viral.
Speaker 3: (30:57)
So it's seen, we may have, if you're a college student, we may have a program that we could implement in the institutional review boards in your university so that they don't approve releases of GMO microbes. There. We know people will have different ways that they can help. Certainly getting informed knowledge has organizing power. That's number one, two, we need to run on fuel. Our fuel is financial. We don't have the money to implement the global campaign that we're envisioning help. So we ask people to make a contribution on an ongoing monthly basis. So we know what's coming and we can hire the staff and create the educational assets that we need based on reliability. So making a, making a donation to our nonprofit is very, very encouraged and kind of essential right now.
Speaker 4: (31:50)
Absolutely do that.
Speaker 3: (31:52)
Thank you. We have a good, thank you very much, Greg. We have a global plan. We have all sorts of positions in our ideal organizational chart. We have products. We have full length documentary. We want to produce TV show. We want to produce, we have all we've envisioned. We've done the visioning of what we need now we're in the manifesting stage. And so, because we can't afford all of those positions, we're now hiring interns that are doing it for free. It's good, but it's not the kind of work that we need to do in the world. This topic deserves the resources. It needs to protect all beings and all future generations that's worth the investment. And that's what I'm, that's what I'm asking people to support and recruiting experts in all sorts of areas, to make sure that we have the highest quality materials with the highest quality impact.
Speaker 4: (33:00)
Wow, cool. So I challenge everybody. That's listening to go to protect nature now.com and make a monthly donation. When we're done recording today, I will log on and I will do that myself. Absolutely. This is, this is the most important conversation we can be having about food and about gut biomes and about our health right here. This is it. Okay.
Speaker 3: (33:26)
Thank you, Greg. I think, you know, there's a certain point in the conversation where I get that people get it. It's like I, if there was something more dangerous and more serious and more immediate and more needing, I would be doing that. It's like, it's like when I first got into GMOs, it's like, okay, hardly anyone knows about it. And it's going to alter the genome for all future generations. It may affect everyone who eats and you know, that was the wake-up call. The gummy started and we've had success at the Institute for responsible technology and building a global movement. We trained 1500 people to speak on it. We organized over 10,000 activists in North America. I helped, um, world leaders around the world craft better policies. I testified in many different, uh, government, um, rooms with ministers and whatnot. I saw how to do it, but it took 25 years. In this case, we don't have the luxury.
Speaker 4: (34:34)
We don't have 25 years. Right.
Speaker 3: (34:36)
And, and also I was, my, my job was easier for the last 25 years because I didn't need to change government policy. I just needed a critical number of consumers to change their eating policy. And then even pro GMO governments. Like the United States could not stop the power of consumers. Now I need to change the government of the United States. I need to make. Cause the thing is consumer choice and the supermarkets not going to stop the genetic engineering of microbes and sex or trees or grass, we need to have practical, responsible up to date regulations, laws in the government. And we need to have that supported by deep understanding and commitment from the population. So it's a multi-year project. I'm aware of that, but it's also absolutely urgent now.
Speaker 4: (35:31)
Yeah. Amen. And the short film, don't let the gene out of the bottle. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3: (35:38)
Well, you know, I started it before the pandemic and we, I had interviewed Elaine Angum twice in like 2012 and 2014. So I had the short hair version of LA and the longer version of Elaine and I got into the deep story of it. And you know, since my focus was on health, I never really did. I didn't do anything with it. I put her, I put some of her comments into one of my films, I think genetic roulette, but I didn't go deeply into the story of this near cataclysm. I was just waiting and it was, it was priority to right. I never get to priority two is trust me, it never happens that I can get to priority two because there's always a priority one that's either urgent or supremely important. And now I got to the microbiome and I got to, you know, protecting protect nature now.
Speaker 3: (36:37)
And I'm like, Oh, that's the story. Let's lead with that. So we pulled up, we pulled up the footage, created some materials. I also would, was known about this, uh, ice minus the changes of the, of the, of the, uh, frost, uh, bacteria. I knew about that. That was perfect. Then all of a sudden we have the pandemic and the pandemic turns out to be the perfect. And I used the word perfect in a cautious way, wake up call. I mean, yes, it has had devastating impacts. And that's why the up call is so resounding because if the pandemic successfully alerts people to the ability for microbes and viruses to spread and wreak havoc and causes us to lock it down, it's outcome, it's silver lining. At least one of them may be to have protected all living beings and all future generations from the falling of humans going forward.
Speaker 3: (37:34)
So that's what I'm hoping. And that's why I realized, Oh, we need to do something different. We can't lead with bacteria. We need to lead with the pandemic because there are lessons here. There are lessons that everyone has an unmet need to protect future generations from. So now we have a pandemic angle, which is completely appropriate because the pandemic is for the virus, which is part of the microbiome and it has the lessons. And so what do we need to do now? We need to gather people to implement the solutions. So the arc of this short film, and it is short, is using the pandemic to alert us, introducing these, Oh my God. Incidences of, you know, near catastrophes, awakening people to the role of the microbiome for the first time that it is this amazing foundational, um, field, this critical to our health, and then say, we need to protect it.
Speaker 3: (38:36)
Here's where you go. And we'll tell you what to do. We don't go into the details of all the ways to protect it in the film. We want to keep the film short. We want it to go viral on social. And so the longer, the longer the number of minutes, the less likely it's going to be seen, especially by the younger generation. So we have a trailer that's two minutes and 20 seconds. And that has, by the time this thing airs, it'll probably have half a million views. It's kind of about 300,000 now. So, so, um, we were using that as the alarm, you know, pin debit, cause the first general arm, we're using this as a specific alarm and then inviting people to come into our world and get the education. Because once you, once you say, okay, I'm interested. Here's my, here's my email impressed me.
Speaker 3: (39:24)
Right? We will impress you. We will impress you and educate you. There'll be, most people are going to just say, yeah, I'll just want to hear about it. Then there's going to be some that will say, I want to do something about it. We'll go. Okay, good. Cause I'm an activist too. And this, this is, this is what I get excited about. So you want to do this, you want to do this? Who do you are? Who you are? Who are you? What are your skills? What do you want to do? Let's get working again. So we have a whole activist training and participation program.
Speaker 4: (39:51)
Oh, nice. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. So you're continuing on the training piece.
Speaker 3: (39:58)
Oh yeah. The thing is this, what happened was when I started training people to speak on GMOs and I started going into deep knowledge. You see, most of most everyone had talked about the dangers of GMOs to health, whether it was kept it very, very light and they followed the fault,
Speaker 4: (40:14)
Like current events,
Speaker 3: (40:17)
News, where it has like one sentence where it says, you know, bear central says it's safe. Others say that could cause problems and that's it. Right? So I realized, I need to write an article seven pages just on this one particular study and not everyone would read seven pages, but those that did, they often started their own group. So I found one woman that had a group of, of moms, of autistic kids. And she was basically quoting for me. I had one person who ran a health food store and he had basically a group of people. He was teaching. I realized that the information that we had given out college as organizing power was already creating small groups. And we had to catch up and create a tipping point network and be more formal about it. But we were reacting to what was starting to happen in little pockets of people who had deep knowledge.
Speaker 3: (41:05)
So then we brought out, you know, we brought out, um, PowerPoint that was scripted with just speaker training program and activist training program. How to organize for lectures, how to give lectures, how to organize for media, et cetera, et cetera. And now it's expanded to social media. So yeah, I'm used to doing that. And even, even like, I used to travel around, giving a talk, you know, alerting people and they would change their diet, but they didn't know how to organize. And I wasn't helping them that I realized I was hoping that there would be a group that invited me to take the names of everyone and to bring it. But sometimes they didn't, sometimes they did, but I created what's called an activist circle protocol where I said, who wants to help on this? Meet me with, meet with me. We'll forming a circle within 30 minutes with a specific protocol, we'd know who was meeting.
Speaker 3: (41:54)
We'd have all their contact information, what they particularly wanted to do before the next meeting, what their skills were and some ideas for the resources and strategy. And it was very specific and it was like super fast. And like people said, it was the most effective and efficient activist meeting they'd ever been to. I was leaving the next morning and I needed to make sure I was leaving behind a viable group with specific leaders in a place to meet. They knew where they were going to be, how often they were going to meet all within that 30 minutes. Have we taught people how to run those, run those meetings. So that's sort of part of my DNA now is building movements. And thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. So that's why it's easy for me to say, okay, we need, we need millions of people involved. We need, you know, all the major governments we need an internet intergovernmental organizations. Got it. I'm on it.
Speaker 2: (42:50)
Nice. So go to protect nature now.com. Please make a donation, make it a monthly donation. If you can. And uh, watch the short film that's there. That's uh, I watched it earlier today. I got the two minute version and it's powerful. So thank you for that. You're welcome. You have a podcast and I was so excited. It's been about a year and a half maybe. Right.
Speaker 3: (43:15)
You know, I, I don't know, but it's called live healthy be well, you can go live healthy bewell.com and you see, because I'm dealing with so many areas, Greg, you know, I have Facebook lives. I have I'm on summits. I do like later today I'm doing a recording for release in response to something that bears announcing bear Monsanto. Um, I realized that I can repurpose things. So if I do a press, if I do a, a Facebook live, it can go the podcast I do as part of our newsletter, which is every other week, um, for Lee Institute for responsible technology, I do, what's called, Jeffrey's take where I'll share what's happening in the news in the context of genetic engineering that we know about for 25 years. So that I'll put that up on the podcast. So I'll throw things on there. You know, I'll, I'll do an interview. If I could steal this one, I throw it on my podcast.
Speaker 2: (44:14)
Let's do it. I'm in. I was going to ask that, but I was like, well, maybe not, but
Speaker 3: (44:20)
Absolutely. So for those, for the, those are my podcasts now that are listening to this, tell them what the name of your podcast is,
Speaker 3: (44:33)
All right. So now we're, cross-pollinating see. One thing that's very interesting is in terms of global movement building it's non territorial, right? Well, you know, we have to, we have to, it's not about look at me, it's about, let's do this.
Speaker 2: (44:49)
It's like, how can we make everybody's boat float higher? How can we collaborate? How can we work together? Because this, my goal since 1991, uh, has been to be the person on the planet, responsible for transforming our global food system. And that gets me up every morning. And I know that I can't do it alone. You know, it's, uh, this is a global project. So all I do everyday is I throw out great information that empowers people like this podcast today. So it's collaboration, baby.
Speaker 3: (45:23)
And I want to say, I honor you for stating so boldly without apology, without condition, what your mission is. I think that is not only refreshing, it's instructive, you know, you could have said, well, you know what? One thing that I want to help out at is I want to make a contribution towards and sort of, no, you said, I'm here to do this and I need help and I'm not going to do it alone, but you did that. I need help. And I can do it alone. You did that second, which tells me you're owning your own mission and the vision that you have. And like my, my slogan is think huge, biggest. So last sentence, right? Yeah. Thinking big is so last century, we don't, we don't have big problems. We have huge problems. So nature can respond. People can respond to huge problems.
Speaker 3: (46:24)
If I said to you, okay, we want to protect a GMO introduction here in Northern California. Would you like to make a donation? Yeah. Thank you. You know, I'm working on something else. If I say, we're going to protect the global microbiome to protect all living beings and all future generations, and that's just phase one, right. You know, then it's like, Oh, now I'm interested. So we already have example from this podcast of people listening and being moved because of the vision of the problem and the vision of the person willing to make the solution, right? This is, this is magnet, a magnet. This is magnet magnetic. If you have an impulse, I'm talking to the people now listening to cause you have this already. So this is for the people listening. If you have an impulse to do something huge, if you think that, Oh, am I good enough?
Speaker 3: (47:17)
Am I, am I going to get going to be successful? What will people think of me now? You're, you're hitting against your own glass ceiling. Right? But there's a part of you, a version of you that lies above the ceiling, above the roof. Yes. You can actually get there instantly by saying yes to that part, because that part is fearless. That part knows, this is why I'm here. And that part, all of a sudden gets as if the resources to start a cup, wishing it. Cause it's not, it's not involved each day in the fear. Can I can't, I can't, I can't die because that just recruits energy at that small level, right? When you go above the roof, above the forest and you say, okay, I'm here to transform the global food supply. I'm here to protect the genetic integrity of all living beings and all future generations.
Speaker 3: (48:14)
You know, it's like, that's what I'm here for. Bring it up. And I, as I, as I used to say with the writing of the first, my first book seeds of deception, I paraphrased, uh, Ernest Hemingway, maybe. I mean, I destroyed his quote, but a paraphrase it for my purposes. How does that, uh, sometimes I write to the best of my ability and other times I write better. It's like, it's like, when you're, when you're lined up for this, then you get the resources. It's like, if we're here to support all living beings and all future generations, if their destiny is tied up with our actions, perhaps we can get support from nature herself. And that appears to be happening in my life. And those of us who, yeah. Who stepped up to protect her. So, absolutely. So this is the spiritual and the, and if you think about when the new cycle, the new science of consciousness and nature and how it's actually Uber scientific way of understanding how being in this thinking huge is a advanced technique for our personal development and for global change.
Speaker 4: (49:28)
Yeah. Well, and I've found over and over and over again. In fact, my team has a name for it. They call it the bacon gods and the bacon gods are the gods that show up and save your bacon. And Jan is my, my manager. She's my manager. Now she manages me, uh, noticed it about four years ago that when I talk, when I make a statement, when I say this is going to happen and it happens, invariably, it happens. That's what she calls the bacon. God. So our words have power. Our words have amazing power. I want to go back to something you said just a minute ago about this. And I call it the monkey mind. Something happened for me in 2004, when I started paying attention to that voice in my head that said, Greg, who are you to do this? And I remember having a conversation and those of you that are watching this on video, you can see what I did. I turned to the right up to the right and looked. And I started talking to that voice and I said, shut the H up. What I'm doing in the world. This was 2004. I said, what I'm doing in the world is much more important than whatever the hell you have to say and it's silenced it.
Speaker 4: (50:56)
It's silenced. And I had to do a little bit more work, but what I get now is the other side of that coin. So I'm, I'm what they call a legacy runner for the, uh, Phoenix rock and roll half marathon, which means I've done it every time since it started in 2004 and I have Lyme disease and all my listeners know that. And a couple of years ago, I ran into a wall with a Lyme disease metaphorically. And I just wasn't up for running a half marathon doing a half marathon. And I verbalized that. I didn't think I was going to be doing the half marathon this year, that particular year, and this voice, this roaring voice came at me. And it said not. Who do you think you are? It said, listen, you made a commitment, get out there and do it. So there is a way to turn that monkey mind into a powerful, powerful voice for you. I've done it. You can do it. So thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 3: (52:00)
And as we're on the same theme, and it's so great to connect with you this way. I remember meeting you first in 2013 and was deeply impressed with your vision and commitment to get big things done. As I told you, when we started, before we started recording, I remember what you said eight years ago at a dinner table in Phoenix. You, it, it did not leave me because you were there saying, I'm going to do this. And you are holding yourself up as a model. I'm like, Oh, I'm going to follow this guy. I want to go, let's see what this guy does. So the once we have that, yes. Once we say that, yes, then if we get out there and are a spokesperson, yes, we get out there and we are a representative of that goal. Have that issue. Then what happens is there's a kind of a polishing of the rough edges of our personality.
Speaker 3: (52:56)
We're not operating on the personal level. When we do that, we're operating on the collective level. We're operating in a huge way and people will come up to me and say, you know, I'm your biggest fan? You're my idol. You're my hero. Um, you know, you changed my life. You saved my life. You saved my family's life. And I'm like, in that role, I'm not little Jeffrey. In that role, I am holding a space for this leader that I have offered myself to be the servant as I've offered myself to be. And it's not an ego thing when they say that it doesn't, it doesn't touch my ego at all. It's like, how can I inspire and serve this person even more? But the whole process, because I traveled a lot for 13 years, I was traveling six to nine months a year. That's a lot of traveling and speaking and all that. And it was like honing and polishing and permissioning and enforcing what it's like to be a servant in the role of a leader to just do it naturally and easily. And again, grinding down any rough edges of the personality and just offering oneself self to that. And this is the real intense, advanced, advanced technique, incredible advanced technique for personal growth and for World-Check.
Speaker 4: (54:26)
Yeah. Think big. No, thank you think gigantic. My, uh, my, uh, uh, Larry Santoya one of my permaculture teachers out of LA decade, a decade and a half ago, I was sitting having a conversation with him and he just said to me, Greg, go out and do Epic in the world. It's like, all right, I'm in, let's do this. I'm going to pause for a minute. We are 54 minutes into this. And, um, I have other questions that I usually ask. Um, are, do you still have time to, to do that? Yes, I do. Okay, cool. So what I'll say next is I'm going to shift on you and then I'll throw those questions at ya. All right. 55 public 55 30. Thanks. By the way. We're doing great. So I'm going to shift on you and I'd like for you to talk about a time you failed, how you overcame that failure and what you might've learned from it.
Speaker 3: (55:33)
So I remember I was living in Iowa and I had just spent a lot of time in California trying to help the passage of prop 37, which was to require labeling of GMOs. I'd given 51 lectures. I released the film genetic roulette in time to having a difference. And I tried unsuccessfully to direct the messaging of the campaign to focus on the health dangers because I, and others were very confident that simply saying it's our right to know was a weak argument that could be turned around by the lies of the biotech industry. And you're in the right to know is going to cost you $550, $5 per person per year, if you require to be labeled, which was a lie. I mean, it was not true at all. It wouldn't have cost me. Um, and we lost, but I was sitting in her number that it was in Iowa on election night. And I, I went and checked, um, the results and then went, Oh, we lost. And it took me about 30 seconds to rebound. And 30 seconds was like, okay, we'll get it some other way.
Speaker 4: (56:51)
Well, and if I remember correctly, you lost by a shaving didn't you totally. Yeah. It was like so close.
Speaker 3: (57:00)
Yeah. So, you know, I realized that I wasn't able to convince the message makers about the health danger as the primary. I was, I was saying, for example, that if you win, even if you win on your right to know, it could be overturned by the FDA or whatever and preempted for States' rights. So it becomes a federal thing. And all the money that we've spent educating people becomes nowhere because we haven't used the millions of dollars that were available for our campaign to actually drive consumer demand away from GMOs, because it wouldn't have mattered whether we win or lose. If we have figured out the formula to collapse all their all consumer support for GMOs, it wouldn't be good. It would be gone. And the bigger issue would have happened. And ultimately what happened was we lost there. We lost in three other States, but when it was passed in Vermont and about to be implemented, the Congress did preempt States' rights just as we had thought.
Speaker 3: (58:04)
And we ended up collapsing all of the States fighting. So I had tried to warn against that. I contacted the leaders of the different States after that, trying to convince them I was unsuccessful. So it was a failure in California of the, of the vote. It was a failure in the other three States of the vote. It was my failure to convince the leaders that to not listen to their political, um, consultants, who said, either you educate or you win. If you try and educate, you're going to lose. So if you try and educate people about the health dangers, you're going to lose the vote. And I tried to say, yeah, but if we win the vote, we still may lose because of the preemption. It didn't go very well. So I just, you know, I just continued to educate, and I knew that we didn't need to get a hundred percent of the voters of the consumers eating non-GMO.
Speaker 3: (58:57)
We didn't need 51% needed, maybe 5% of consumers dedicated to non-GMO eating. And we could collapse support by the food companies. So even though the political game, the political, um, fight gave us the ability to get some of our messaging out. And, you know, my, my, my film genetic roulette was released that year, 2012. And number of percentage of Americans that believe that GMOs could cause harm increased by 10%, by 10% in that one year. And I know that my film had been played on over, played over 300 times on PBS stations. We've seen by 2 million people, you know, a million and 0.2 within the week. So I think I had something to do with that. And, uh, even though the ballot initiatives were simply saying, it's your right to know, we don't know what it'll do, but we need to know it was like, ah,
Speaker 4: (59:53)
Yeah. The, the impact that you had has been long lasting. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (59:58)
And the thing is, I mean, we've been, we were successful, ultimately we were succeeded.
Speaker 4: (01:00:02)
Yeah. Yeah. And what do you consider your biggest success
Speaker 3: (01:00:06)
That I say, you know, I was aiming for 5% of the us population being dedicated non GMO eaters. Now we have 51% of Americans that believe that GMO foods can cause long-term health problems and way more than 5% who are dedicated non-GMO eaters. So we have more numbers than we need. And that is now driving. The changes that we saw happening, we knew were going to happen when you have that kind of consumer demand, it means that, you know, if Nabisco has a cookie on the shelf and there's a neighbor, a neighbor on the shelf that has non-GMO and they start increasing market share the Biscoe, why would they want to keep GMOs? Because there's no consumer benefit it's just added, it's just a pesticide, you know, sponge it either you add more Roundup to it, or you produce a pesticide to kill an insect. There's no consumer benefit to GMOs. There's no greater, you know, whatever. So we knew that if we had the numbers, we would win. And so we're winning. And so that I'd say was my greatest accomplishment, if you want it, it's not mine. I mean, it's our, our greatest accomplishment was to build and implement a movement based on messaging, which I did pioneer and others came in and, you know,
Speaker 4: (01:01:23)
Group collaborated, right? We do this, we do this together. Totally. We, you know, I believe that really the down far fall of our cultures is competition. Collaboration is where we make our best work at and make our best Abass advancements. So collaborate. How can we work together? Absolutely. Yeah. And what drives you? What's your big, why in the world?
Speaker 3: (01:01:52)
Um, well saving all living beings and all future generations is probably right.
Speaker 4: (01:01:58)
Speaker 3: (01:02:00)
You know, it's like, um, I'm here to do a job and it's more important than other things. And I'm able to get my life. I'm able to have, uh, a good life at the same time. Yeah. You know, there's a, all these environmental activists talk about sustainability and I say, yeah, but is your career sustainable?
Speaker 3: (01:02:24)
Yeah. If I mentioned, if every time I mentioned the word Monsanto, I have a physiological, uh, constriction, if I get depressed or angry or sad, every time I talk about the dangers that I'm talking about, that is not sustainable. That is devastating. So one of the ways that I'm sustainable is to be optimistic, to model that optimism and help people get over that fear and get active. So, yeah. So I have to be a sustainable activist. That's what I can do it for 25 years and now launching a new movement. Um, and that's, that is driven by an understanding of that I'm here to help on global issues and within the GMO.
Speaker 4: (01:03:06)
Yeah. What, so when I was in the eighth grade, it was 1974. I wrote a paper on how we were over the oceans. I've known since I was a teen preteen, that there's something wrong with the way we're growing food on the planet and what I've found for myself in this arena. When I asked myself what drives me, it's it's whatever messaging that you know, who knows from past life, or I don't know where it comes from. It's just what I have to do. And sometimes it's a gift most of the time, it's a gift. Sometimes it's a curse. Do you find that same thing? I don't find it a curse. No. No. So going back to what you said a moment ago was presenting this positive forward moving thing. That's how you get past that piece. It sounds like maybe,
Speaker 3: (01:04:00)
I mean, it's built in, it's not like, Oh, I think I'll be positive because it's important. I am a positive, optimistic person, also important. Um, the, the, what is harder to navigate Greg is the fact that I have never had the resources to accomplish things at the pace that I wanted to. Um, you know, I've never had an organism. We've never had a million dollars a year to work with in our nonprofit. And we did a lot more than a million right now for this global campaign. Um, and so there was always a to-do list that was beyond my capacity to do. And there was, like I said, it never gets to, to, to number two priorities. And I had to make peace with that and just go, okay, let's just find where I can best spend my time and best try and raise resources to accomplish more. And that's where, if you say there's a curse, it's only if I, if I allow it to be,
Speaker 4: (01:05:10)
It's only in my head. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So, cause the reason I say that is because some, it just, the magnitude of what we're up against is daunting. And when I let that get in my, in my view, that's I think that's when it becomes a curse,
Speaker 3: (01:05:30)
I'm going to give you a little analogy that I like to play with because you said past lives and whether or not people believe in past lives here, here's a story as if, okay. Okay. So when you and I got our envelope for our assignment, right. He went back to the receptionist, said there must be a problem. All right. This is only one small planet. And they said, Oh no, it's an important planet. Oh, okay. Okay. We'll go and help. So the matter of size is perspective, you can, it's relative. It's like, you know, it's like, Oh, this is just one small planet. We can handle this. You know, this is just, this is just the food supply. Or you can think, Oh God, this is the whole food supply. It's just a matter of perspective.
Speaker 4: (01:06:21)
Yeah. Awesome. I'll take it. Thank you. And a book you might recommend for our listeners.
Speaker 3: (01:06:30)
This is interesting. Um, I read a lot, but not books I read, you know, I get a hundred important emails a day, get muddled, sorts of list serves. Um, I always recommend my books, but they're old. They're not current event books. Um, in terms of another person's book, um, if you are really into the history and details of the arguments and the progress and all that of the GMO movement, uh, Steve Drucker wrote a beautiful book, altered genes, twisted truth. It's over 400 pages. It's dense. It's dense. I mean, like, I, I, I, I like easier sentence structures. He's a lawyer and he wins the argument. My God, he wins the argument. You finished reading that or even a chapter and you go, Oh my God. That was brilliant. So his, his, his is amazing. And um, I'm also looking forward to Carrie Gillum's books upcoming about the, the Monsanto papers, the,
Speaker 4: (01:07:28)
Oh yes. You've talked about that in your podcast. Haven't you?
Speaker 3: (01:07:31)
Yeah. She's coming out with a new book based on the trials and the Monsanto papers because I was involved in the trials. I knew didn't remember. Yeah. Did the round.
Speaker 4: (01:07:41)
Excellent. Thank you. And a final piece of advice for our listeners.
Speaker 3: (01:07:50)
That's a good question. You know, let me think about what's rises spontaneously. Oftentimes they get to the end of my talk and I'll say, and I want to close by saying this and I actually have no idea what I'm going to say, right? So I want to close by saying this. We have explored an enormous topic. You've explored an idea that can affect the existence of humanity, the existence of ecosystems. And we've also talked about a potential role that we can play, which is probably bigger than you are thinking for yourself. My experience helping to motivate people to get active is that right now is the most critical time. This moment for making a commitment to something. Now, maybe you are maybe it's to get involved with our campaign, protect nature. Now, maybe it's to pursue that thing that has been knowing inside you. And you got inspired by something that Greg said, or I said now is the pregnant moment.
Speaker 3: (01:09:09)
And if you wait five minutes or one day or one month, it becomes like a rumor in the past a vague memory, like the invitation has opened up right now to make a commitment, how that commitment is made. Whether you say it out loud, write it down, get online, make a phone call, start your book, whatever it is, this is the time to use this energy. Because if you start here with all the momentum of what we've talked about, the chances of your success are far greater than if you put it off until after you eat or when you get home, pull the car over, decide. Now that's my last point.
Speaker 4: (01:10:02)
Wow. Wow. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Jeffrey. So how can our listeners find you?
Speaker 3: (01:10:12)
Okay, now you have to write a bunch of things down. So now that you've paid or whatever, so protect nature now.com. The mothership of our organization is responsible technology.org. We have lots of resources there. You can click over to pets and gmos.com to Roundup risks.com. I also have another completely different list organization at live healthy, be well.com. There we have, um, I've created a 90 day lifestyle upgrade to help people switch to organic by using the tips and tricks of people that have been doing it for years love with introducing you to some people that have amazing, uh, products that can help in your new lifestyle. I have a program called, um, healing from GMOs and Roundup. What you can do in addition to avoiding GMOs, what you can do to rebuild the body. We have the film secret ingredients, which is convinces people to eat organic better than anything else.
Speaker 3: (01:11:10)
We know that for pre and post tests, because it, the impact on people's health when they switched to organic, which is dramatic, the film delivers. So if you're the kind of person that has an eating healthy, because you've been listening to Greg's podcast on my podcast, but you want to convince your kid or your parents or your, or your spouse, then secret ingredients will deliver the goods like nothing else I believe. And that's what people tell me. And that's available at live healthy, be well.com and you can also get the podcasts. So those that's a good start. We have Facebook, we have other things, but that's, you'll find it all there.
Speaker 4: (01:11:46)
And I lived healthy be well. I noticed you had a, uh, uh, pet veteran, a veterinarian, come on and talk about the non GMOs for your pets, which is also really important.
Speaker 3: (01:11:59)
Oh my God. It's like I, uh, we have a whole pets and gmos.com website. We have a short video there with lots of veterinarians and pet owners. The impact on cats and dogs who eat GMOs or get off of GMOs is like day and night when GMOs were introduced, there was a skyrocketing of all these diseases that were not even taught in veterinary school or very downplayed. And when the vets realized that it's the food and they put them on organic, it's like, according to this one, veterinarian who was Oprah's veterinarian, 80 to 90% of the situation is resolvable 80 to 90% of her, her patients.
Speaker 4: (01:12:44)
Well, amen to that. We all have pets that we love. Yep. Thank you once again. And you can find show notes from today's podcast that have been farm.org forward slash protect nature. Now, thank you, Greg. Thank you, Jeffrey.
Speaker 3: (01:13:08)
Thank you for listening to live healthy. Be well, please subscribe to the podcast. Using whatever app you're listening to podcasts with, or go to live healthy, be well.com to subscribe. This podcast will inform you about health dangers, corporate and government corruption and ways we can protect ourselves, our families and our planning. I interviewed scientists, experts, authors, whistleblowers, and many people who have not shared their information with the world until now, please share the podcast with your friends. They will be enlightened and may even say
Speaker 4: (01:13:38)
Save lives. CPT [inaudible].